Alright, as a lot of you guys know I have been flying the Phantom 3 for some time and also owned the vision plus last year so don't think I'm nocking on dji or complaining because that is not the issue. Have a few questions maybe some of the more experienced crowd can answer. First off how is it that DJI has designed an FPV system with zero static and interference but everything after market has massive interference. An example would be that I built a blackout hex last year with top of the line everything, immersion, blackout motors, spider escs, and naze 32, used the Taranis and fat shark HDs with the hex.. And after all that work, there was still massive interference in the goggles, you know the white noise and such like after you fly out to 1500 ft or so, but I just expected clear transmission like DJI offers. If you ever watch any of the quad racing vids you will see what I'm referring to. So basically what I'm thinking about doing is buying a Turbo ace Matrix E from scratch, instead of getting the inspire, but I want to know if there is anything better than the Lightbridge 2? Something with less restrictions and control from the manufacture? I just want a little more freedom to make my own choices, as a responsible flyer that is! Any help would be appreciated. Also I wanted to ask if anybody knows, is the Lightbridge 2 a little more less restrictive, or more open source?
Any superior to lightbridge?
- Thread starter jasonb777
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Far as I know, the only better analog solution is to use the lower frequency ham bands, which would technically require a ham license. That and to increase the power output on the bird side.
Lightbridge is hard to beat... It's basically wimax with a custom integrated DaVinci video dsp.
The only thing I can think of to match/beat it is to go with a custom "video over lte" solution, aka, sending data over the cell network, and not directly back to you. Don't know of anyone who's done it yet, but it's technically possible.
Truth is, it's just not that easy to send hi def video miles over the air, especially without perfect los and requisite antenna orientation. That's just physics. Inverse square law is a real bastard...
Huh, that's right. Funny I was just thinking today that it would be great if someone learned how use cell frequencies for transmitting and receiving. They would hit it big and change the entire rc world... But you know some agency would place restrictions all over that tech.
Low frequency bands might not have sufficient bandwidth to steam 720p HD in read time, while Lightbridge 2 claims 1080p HD streaming. Custom LTE solution may cause inconsistent latency depending on network traffic/coverage as we tested it 3-4 years ago on AR.Drone via 3G network. Signal may also drop off when switching from one cell tower to another when flying long range.
There are similar wireless HD video streaming technologies used in broadcasting industry, but they are not designed for flying our drones with higher price tag than Lightbridge.
Modern LTE operates at 700 MHz in the United States.
Seems to work pretty well with 150+ Mbit bandwidth in later revisions. In fact, modern encoding schemes are so tricky that they work at frequencies even far lower than that.
The old days of "higher frequency = higher bandwidth" tend to apply less and less. Physics is still physics, but encoding schemes are far more advanced these days.
There is really no "upper limit" to how much data can be encoded into a wave of photons, assuming the right scheme.
And I'd suggest trying again with the current AT&T or Verizon LTE networks. A LOT has changed in the past few years. The carriers have built their new networks to be data-focused from the ground up. GSM -> EDGE -> UMTS/WCDMA -> HSDPA -> HSPA+ were all based on technologies originally designed for voice traffic only.
Whereas latency on the modern LTE networks is a full order of magnitude lower than even the current 3G networks.
In fact, most of the current LTE networks are almost entirely independent of the 3G and older networks, as they were built as such.
That's why I was careful to say "LTE" and not "3G".
Not that I'd like to advertise it, but I often stream 1080p video (via my personal VPN) on my cell phone while driving.
For the entertainment of passengers only, of course.
(People seem amazed when I can get "the game" live via Xfinity App and my VPN while on the move).
Point is, 95-99% of the time, I bet LTE in major metro areas would carry drone FPV just fine.
The real trick would be live hand-off between a local WiMax/Lightbridge radio and the LTE network.
Now that'd really be something... and something I fully expect to see within the decade.
~~~
The problem is, as you rightly state, most of the current high-bandwidth long range video transmission tech is designed for industry, and therefore carries an industry price-tag. While Lightbridge stand-alone is no doubt expensive, it's pretty cheap compared to broadcaster-quality equipment. The fact that they squeezed a OFDM/WiMax style radio into the P3 at its price point is really rather impressive. It's also why the lightbridge board contains by far the most IC components of the entire bird. I'd bet it's the single most expensive component on the whole thing.
But back the OP's question, there really isn't much available at a hobbyist price-point that's better than Lightbridge 2.
Agreed with you it's hard to beat Lightbridge at the same price tag, say $1,000 for a P3A.Modern LTE operates at 700 MHz in the United States.
Seems to work pretty well with 150+ Mbit bandwidth in later revisions. In fact, modern encoding schemes are so tricky that they work at frequencies even far lower than that.
The old days of "higher frequency = higher bandwidth" tend to apply less and less. Physics is still physics, but encoding schemes are far more advanced these days.
There is really no "upper limit" to how much data can be encoded into a wave of photons, assuming the right scheme.
And I'd suggest trying again with the current AT&T or Verizon LTE networks. A LOT has changed in the past few years. The carriers have built their new networks to be data-focused from the ground up. GSM -> EDGE -> UMTS/WCDMA -> HSDPA -> HSPA+ were all based on technologies originally designed for voice traffic only.
Whereas latency on the modern LTE networks is a full order of magnitude lower than even the current 3G networks.
In fact, most of the current LTE networks are almost entirely independent of the 3G and older networks, as they were built as such.
That's why I was careful to say "LTE" and not "3G".
Not that I'd like to advertise it, but I often stream 1080p video (via my personal VPN) on my cell phone while driving.
For the entertainment of passengers only, of course.
(People seem amazed when I can get "the game" live via Xfinity App and my VPN while on the move).
Point is, 95-99% of the time, I bet LTE in major metro areas would carry drone FPV just fine.
The real trick would be live hand-off between a local WiMax/Lightbridge radio and the LTE network.
Now that'd really be something... and something I fully expect to see within the decade.
~~~
The problem is, as you rightly state, most of the current high-bandwidth long range video transmission tech is designed for industry, and therefore carries an industry price-tag. While Lightbridge stand-alone is no doubt expensive, it's pretty cheap compared to broadcaster-quality equipment. The fact that they squeezed a OFDM/WiMax style radio into the P3 at its price point is really rather impressive. It's also why the lightbridge board contains by far the most IC components of the entire bird. I'd bet it's the single most expensive component on the whole thing.
But back the OP's question, there really isn't much available at a hobbyist price-point that's better than Lightbridge 2.
Modern LTE network latency can stream 1080p HD (or even 4K UHD youtube) video, but I'm unsure about the latency. Streaming 1080p movie/TV via LTE network to your car may not need to care about latency, while apps always have tens of seconds video buffer. Users are usually unaware of a few seconds of network latency or even signal drop off when switch from one cell tower to another.
However, flying FPV is a different story, while Lightbridge claims with 200ms latency and analog FPV is with less than 100ms. Some FPV racing copters with goggles need less than 50ms latency, and 1 second latency = crash.
I think the P3 Lightbridge is streaming 720P, rather than 1080P. It is a great video data and control link for the power used (100mW).
True about the video buffer, but I think it's only a second or two for live video. Basically about the size of one or two "chunks" of the streaming video.
That said, I get latency of about 40-60 ms to local area servers from my AT&T lte connection. Real world, probably looking at about 100-200 ms for something like fpv, which would not suffice for racing or close maneuvers for sure, but would probably suffice for most conservative P3 flying.
My flytrex has about 500-1000 ms of lag from drone to app screen, but that's enough for me to operate it at distance when my fpv is cut out but my control signal is still getting through. At least once you get used to the delay.
Going back to a P2 w gp4 black for now and will spend the extra money on lightbridge this time so I can port the system over to a S1000 when I have the time and money assuming commercial avenues will open up. I refuse to go back to analog signals after spending the last six months with the P3P but I want a better camera
That is what I did and love it! Turned my "old" p2vp into a Phantom 2 with lightbridge/h43d and gopro 4. I love the fact that I have lightbridge without all of the restrictions of the p3 series due to firmware. Also purchased the 900mhz downlink (hard to come by these days) last year so now I have true long range HD fpv downlink and long range pc ground station capabilities. I picked up my lightbridge Kit for around $500 brand new from a holiday sale. You can still get them heavilly discounted even right now. Definitely recommended!
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Where did you get it? I'm seeing 679 at B&H. Already have it budgeted for this month so that would be nice savings.
That's a good deal! I paid $700 at Adorama just before Christmas.
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Are you saying that Lightbridge doesn't have all the firmware updates with regulations? Thinking about getting a Matrix E and putting Lightbridge 2 on her, so I can fly out to 5 miles at 60mph with no restrictions.
I'm an explorer when it comes to FPV, so I like to get out and around quickly.That is correct. Lightbridge 1 uses a separate app then the DJI GO app and isn't integrated into the main Phantom 2 assistant app. It has its own assistant software. I am running the latest LB firmware which gives full compatability with gopro 4k fpv. I am still running firmware on the phantom 2 from late 2014. No issues.
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Lightbridge 2 may be different since I believe it uses the DJI GO app.
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So are you able to still use a tablet with the Lightbridge 1 or do you have to use a separate screen?
Yes I use a Samsung tablet. The LB 1 has USB and HDMI output on the ground end.
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If you don't mind my asking, how much distance can you get out and height before you lose signal with Lightbridge?
I haven't pushed things to the limit yet , but with my fpvlr lhcp dishes on the ground end and clovers on the bird I have flown over a mile the other day and still had 70% fpv signal left. That was flying out over trees as well. Here is a pic of my flytrex data from the flight.
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Man i have the same with the old firmware 1.08 without any restrictions and i can tell you 100% i enjoy it more than my P3P.
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