Any Ideas On Why?

[Crank]

Hey all....
I know this question might bring all types of good or bad replies, but I think I need to ask anyway.
I get on this forum every day to read what's up in the world of the Phantom. I see many different threads about crashing, swimming, or fly aways. Most loose big or all of thier investment because the Phantom meets its end for one reason or another. At the moment my Phantom 2 grounded until I get a good feeling about its reliability and my flying skills. I'm getting ready to install the gimbal, camera, and FPV equipment. More big dollars. Like everyone else, I have a lot invested in this thing. I guess you take your chances with any kind of high tech remote controlled flying aircraft. Heck the government spends millions on thier drones and they have dropped out of the sky a time or two. There are so many variables in the sky and in any electronic control that can cause it to do stupid things. There is also pilot error, whether you want to admit it or not. I just wish I knew what caused most of the crashes. Being a Electrical Reliability Engineer and a Private Pilot, I know that once we figure what area causes most of the crashes, we can concentrate on that problem and drop the number of crashes. It would be nice to set up some kind of database on those causes and allow pilots to see that data. Everytime one of the members has a disaster, you could add it to the database. A good detailed description of that crash is extremely important. You could make it like a Quadcopter "NTSB" database. I don't know who could build this database but I think it might help bring down the number of crashes. Help make people aware. It could also help DJI on thier software and hardware design. Maybe DJI has a database we could look at and add to our database. Anyway until then, each pilot should use a checklist. I never fly real aircraft without one. That includes all pre-flight checks. Maybe a throttle up procedure before takeoff. Taking a minute to check one important step could be the difference between a great flight or a complete loss. That's an expensive minute!
Just my humble opinion and 2 cents. What are your thoughts on this?

 

[burlbark]

Hey all....
I know this question might bring all types of good or bad replies, but I think I need to ask anyway.
I get on this forum every day to read what's up in the world of the Phantom. I see many different threads about crashing, swimming, or fly aways. Most loose big or all of thier investment because the Phantom meets its end for one reason or another. At the moment my Phantom 2 grounded until I get a good feeling about its reliability and my flying skills. I'm getting ready to install the gimbal, camera, and FPV equipment. More big dollars. Like everyone else, I have a lot invested in this thing. I guess you take your chances with any kind of high tech remote controlled flying aircraft. Heck the government spends millions on thier drones and they have dropped out of the sky a time or two. There are so many variables in the sky and in any electronic control that can cause it to do stupid things. There is also pilot error, whether you want to admit it or not. I just wish I knew what caused most of the crashes. Being a Electrical Reliability Engineer and a Private Pilot, I know that once we figure what area causes most of the crashes, we can concentrate on that problem and drop the number of crashes. It would be nice to set up some kind of database on those causes and allow pilots to see that data. Everytime one of the members has a disaster, you could add it to the database. A good detailed description of that crash is extremely important. You could make it like a Quadcopter "NTSB" database. I don't know who could build this database but I think it might help bring down the number of crashes. Help make people aware. It could also help DJI on thier software and hardware design. Maybe DJI has a database we could look at and add to our database. Anyway until then, each pilot should use a checklist. I never fly real aircraft without one. That includes all pre-flight checks. Maybe a throttle up procedure before takeoff. Taking a minute to check one important step could be the difference between a great flight or a complete loss. That's an expensive minute!
Just my humble opinion and 2 cents. What are your thoughts on this?

Its a good idea. The check list would need constant changing and updating as manufacturers change things and new issues pop up.

 

[Crank]

I did find a checklist or two that are close.
These are good for a start.

 

[sergekouper]

Hi, I got this figure from drone flying instructors as 70% to 80% of crashes are caused by pilot errors. I am not a real aircraft pilot in any way near it, but yes I do a serious pre-flight check list everytime I fly my birds. Then I can concentrate on improving my flying skills, and forget a bit about other risks that could bring them down.
I have a 30 points checklist before lifting off the 900...

 

[sergekouper]

I did find a checklist or two that are close.
These are good for a start.

These are excellent checklists. Maybe I missed it but I didn't see any point about the weather, and the frequencies check. IMO
Everybody should follow these rules, as well as flying LOS, not above congested areas, structures, vehicules etc

 

[Crank]

In the mean time......
For a start....
Maybe the admins can set up a special discussion folder forum for "Mishaps/Crashes call it what you want". Each person should list 5 things in thier crash report.
1. Date/Time/Weather/Firmware/Software if known.
2. Type of equipment at time of flight. P2,Gimbal,etc.
3. What Happened? FULL DETAIL PLEASE!
4. What was lost and estimate crash cost.
5.What does the pilot think the cause was? Equipment or Pilot Error? Be honest. This could help someone else.
The rest of the group should add to the discussion and tell what they recommend next time.

Then there could be another discussion folder called "Most Likely Cause"
Have each pilot list #1 What they think is the most types of crashes and #2 What they believe caused it.
You might have multiple crashes and possible causes. There may be more pilots chiming in on that crash.
I know this kind of information is already here, but the info is all over the place! You can search, but that doesn't show everything. You need to search for the right words. Also if it is in one place, it's easier to find and take note.
Again, this is only my 2 cents and my experience finding possible problems that I should watch out for. Please modify any of this to make it more informative.
What do you all think? Worth a shot?

 

[Crank]

I did find a checklist or two that are close.
These are good for a start.

These are excellent checklists. Maybe I missed it but I didn't see any point about the weather, and the frequencies check. IMO
Everybody should follow these rules, as well as flying LOS, not above congested areas, structures, vehicules etc

Very important stuff there. These checklists need updating for sure.
Thanks

 

[Crank]

Hi, I got this figure from drone flying instructors as 70% to 80% of crashes are caused by pilot errors. I am not a real aircraft pilot in any way near it, but yes I do a serious pre-flight check list everytime I fly my birds. Then I can concentrate on improving my flying skills, and forget a bit about other risks that could bring them down.
I have a 30 points checklist before lifting off the 900...

Great input. I think the same. Those numbers might be off a bit due to the instructors taking care of thier teaching drones. They know what to check and take care of it often so it's normally the pilots error not the well maintained drone. What are your thoughts on this?
Do you have a way to attach your list?

 

[sergekouper]

Hmm... This checklist is really "900 oriented" and not really relevant for the phantom, but there are things that are true for both. I'm going to put one together and post it ASAP.

 

[Crank]

Hmm... This checklist is really "900 oriented" and not really relevant for the phantom, but there are things that are true for both. I'm going to put one together and post it ASAP.

No hurry. I thought you might have one on hand. Didn't want you to go out of your way.
I just saw what a S900 was. HOLY CRAP! That is one beautiful drone! WOW!
Anytime you want to trade, I'll do it because I'm a great guy! :roll:

 

[sergekouper]

Thanks for the offer! I'm going to wait a bit....

I've extracted this from my procedure. This is ok for a Phantom2 Non Vision equipped with a gopro. So for those with a V or V+ there are probably more points to check, and some irrelevants. But here we go:
Phantom2 loading list

Aircraft Spare Batteries: 3 Fully Charged
Anemometer: Check Serviceable
Spectrum Analyser: Ensure Fully Charged and serviceable
Tool Case: Required tools
RC Battery : Fully charged
Field Monitor battery : Fully charged
GPS Tracker Battery: Fully charged
Spare Antennae : 2
Spare Propellers: 4
Spare Micro SD Card: 1 x32GB
GPS Tracker Phone Number: XXXXXXXXXXX
Take Off/Landing Mat: Check presence

Site Pre-flight checks

On-site Survey: Complete a full risk assessment of the task area.

Weather Check : Check Wind Speed : Max 16 NM/h
Check Temperature: -10° to 40°

Wind speed in congested areas: Max 5Nm/h

Spectrum Analyser: Conduct a thorough sweep of the task area for potential spectrum fratricide. 10 mins prior to Take-Off until Take-Off (No spikes over -75db on control frequency 2.4GHZ)

Check RPAS Serviceability:

Site RPA Setup and Pre-flight Checks

RPA Visual inspection: Check shell for cracks, cleanliness. Inspect electrical and video connections, moisture, debris. Inspect landing gear.
Ensure all components are securely fastened to the body.
Propellers:
Inspect for cracks, cuts, clips and cleanliness. Check tightening.
Antennae: Install Antennae to Video TX/RX
GPS Tracker device: Power "On" tracker device
Field monitor/Video RX: Install Battery to FPV Ground System.
Power "On" Video RX and Field monitor
Radio Controller: Power "On" Radio Controller.
Check for all switches in "12h position".
RPA Battery: Insert RPA battery and check secure lock.
RPA Power "On" and check for POST audio report.
Compass Calibration:
Check Compass Calibration confirmation: Proceed to field calibration steps
Step1: LED Flashing Orange go Still Green
Step2: LED Still Green go Flashing Green

Camera Power "On": Check picture reception, check recording type, start recording

Satellite lock: Wait for tail Medium Speed Flashing Green LED
Check on field monitor number of satellites in sight (6-7 minimum)
Home point recording: Wait for tail Fast Speed Flash Green LED sequence

Take-off Checks/Flight Procedures

A - Check Take-Off area clear: All persons must remain at minimum 7 meters from take-off site. (30 meters if not under RP control)
Check for any obstruction
B - Both Control sticks to Down in squinting position
" \ / " RPA propellers start at idle speed.

C - Increase Altitude Stick until RPA climbs to 3m. Check under carriage is clear of FOD.

D - RPA stabilises at 3m. RPA will now wait for next command.

E - Check GPS lock. Check again for tail Medium Speed Flashing Green LED and number of satellites displayed on FPV monitor

F - Check ATTI mode. Only Altitude is maintained. RPA drifts with the wind until corrected.
G - Check IOC Home Lock/Course lock modes. Fly in any direction for 20 metres in GPS mode. Switch to HL on RC, pull down right stick and check for return to Home point from any azimuth.
Switch to CL on RC, Combine Yaw and Thrust and check for motion control independent of nose orientation.
H - Check Fail safe: Switch to fail safe position.
RPA climbs up to 20 meters, return to vertical of take off point, land and power off automatically.
End of Pre-flight checks. Power cycle RPA/RC
Repeat procedure A to E. Start Task
Record take-off time. To be in RPAS maintenance documents.

Pre-landing checks

Check Landing Area is clear. All persons must remain at minimum 7 meters from take-off site. (30 meters if not under RP control)
Land RPA manually: Hover at 3 m above landing area. Check for any obstruction. Land RPA.
Record landing time: In Remote pilot and RPAS record of maintenance logbooks.

Post-flight checks
Turn "Off" RPA: All lights extinguish
Stop Camera recording: Check Storage space remaining
Remove Battery , Check for any damage, swelling
Place RPA Battery on charger, Record usage in battery maintenance log. Monitor whilst charging.
Turn "Off" Radio Controller . Check battery voltage > 4.8V or put on charge
Unplug FPV field monitor and Video RX Battery (ies)
Check RPA for signs of visible damage, Cracks, cleanliness
Check motor temperature, Check for hi temperature on one or more engines
Check motor arms for cracks on motor seats
Check propellers: Chips, cracks, replace if necessary
Pack RPAS Equipment or carry out pre-flight checks (Section A to E) if second flight required.

 

[Crank]

Very nice! Thanks for this info. I can work with this!
Ok. I didn't think you'd take that deal. Well I'm in a giving mood. Last offer. Take it or leave it! Even up trade!
Just kidding of course.

 

[PhantomFanatic]

Darn, my long post didn't make it here. So, here is a shorter version. First, that is a good idea. It would be nice to include video. If available.

One thing that you absolutely need to add to your P2, is a GPS locator. I bought a RF-V16 from Ebay and I love it! I went into the details, but I'll let you read about it on eBay, or msg me.

Others swear by other locators. I don't know which is the best one, but I'm very happy with this one.

Let's hope you never crash! But, if you have a fatal crash, don't throw your P2 away. There will be good parts that you can sell or buy a new housing. Then mount the good parts and buy what can't be repaired.

As an aside, for any members, if you do have a bad crash with a broken printed circuit board and you don't know how to solder, then send it to me and I'll fix it if it is at all possible to fix. If a few components are bad, I can probably replace them, too.

 

[Buckaye]

The only thing I would add is that people MUST do I this database is admit previous crashes. I know I have posted a comment like this before, but i have been involved with a bunch of threads that get four responses deep on a "my phantom just fell out of the sky" topic only to find out "oh yeah I crashed about a week ago"

I'd agree a huge mount of crashes are preventable by the pilot. But the only way for us to truly help is to understand the history of the aircraft.,, if it has crashed previously, just make sure to mention it along with what you did after the crash (repairs, number of good flights after crash etc)

Just my 2 cents

 

[Crank]

The only thing I would add is that people MUST do I this database is admit previous crashes. I know I have posted a comment like this before, but i have been involved with a bunch of threads that get four responses deep on a "my phantom just fell out of the sky" topic only to find out "oh yeah I crashed about a week ago"

I'd agree a huge mount of crashes are preventable by the pilot. But the only way for us to truly help is to understand the history of the aircraft.,, if it has crashed previously, just make sure to mention it along with what you did after the crash (repairs, number of good flights after crash etc)

Just my 2 cents

You are 100% correct. More information about the crash and the aircraft history is very important. It can help find the problem faster.