Amendment to approved 333 to add another Quad

[msinger]

We can agree to disagree because when it comes to flying a UAS...having a PL is NOT going to make you a better UAS pilot

Perhaps, but this requirement isn't going away since US law requires a pilot license for commercial operations. The new rules are supposed to require an operator pilot license (yet to be created). It'll be easier to obtain since it won't require flying a manned aircraft.

 

[HawkeyeImaging]

From my understanding that will be done through a written test only, a basic knowledge test, and that's a BIG difference from what is required now. I have been reading a lot of articles that says the PL requirement is one of the biggest changes being made. I guess this is what you are referring to:

Under the proposed rule, the person actually flying a small UAS would be an “operator.” An operator would have to be at least 17 years old, pass an aeronautical knowledge test and obtain an FAA UAS operator certificate. To maintain certification, the operator would have to pass the FAA knowledge tests every 24 months. A small UAS operator would not need any further private pilot certifications (i.e., a private pilot license or medical rating).\

Pulled this from an article I read:

"Whether it’s a balloon or a helicopter or a plane or a glider," he said as we drove back to the Poughkeepsie train station, "the skills that you gain from actually piloting those crafts really, as far as I can tell, don’t really translate to piloting drones."

 

[msinger]

I guess this is what you are referring to:

Under the proposed rule, the person actually flying a small UAS would be an “operator.” An operator would have to be at least 17 years old, pass an aeronautical knowledge test and obtain an FAA UAS operator certificate.

Yes. A "certificate" is another name for a PL.

 

[HawkeyeImaging]

But this "certificate" requirement is not an Actual PL as is the requirement now. In other words..no sport, commercial, private PL needed. So no flight training in a Cessna or any other plane and no dreaded SOLO flights, just a simple written test!! Yay for us!!!!

 

[msinger]

But this "certificate" requirement is not an Actual PL as is the requirement now.

It's not? I was under the impression that the FAA was adding a new PL for SUAS.

 

[HawkeyeImaging]

We have a different interpretation of "certificate". I call a certificate a certificate and a license a license. The new rule is calling for a certificate .
A small UAS operator would not need any further private pilot certifications (i.e., a private pilot license or medical rating)

In order to be in compliance now you have to have actual 'Flight Training in an actual airplane, rotor-craft etc..and an actual PL. The new rule you will not have to have any of that..just a written test.
I do not consider a certificate the same as a PL. No actual flight training to do or $10,000 to part with. Again..just my interpretation.

 

[msinger]

It sounds like you're talking about the end result of adding this new PL. But, a PL is a PL as far as the law is concerned. If it's not a new type of PL, I'm not sure how anyone is going to fly a SUAS commercially. The FAA is pretty serious about making pilots adhere to that law.

 

[HawkeyeImaging]

OK there is obviously some confusion somewhere. No where in the proposed rules from the FAA site I got this from does it say or mention anything about a PL, only a certificate. A certificate is not a PL.

The FAA proposal offers safety rules for small UAS (under 55 pounds) conducting non-recreational operations. The rule would limit flights to daylight and visual-line-of-sight operations. It also addresses height restrictions, operator certification, optional use of a visual observer, aircraft registration and marking, and operational limits.

Operator certification being done through an aeronautical knowledge test and obtain an FAA UAS operator certificate. To maintain certification, the operator would have to pass the FAA knowledge tests every 24 months. A small UAS operator would not need any further private pilot certifications (i.e., a private pilot license (this is the only mention of a PL) or medical rating).

Maybe I am confused because you consider a certificate a PL, but I don't.

 

[msinger]

Maybe I am confused because you consider a certificate a PL, but I don't.

Here's what my 333 exemption mentions on the topic of "certificates":

"The PIC must possess at least a private pilot certificate and a third-class airman medical certificate for all of petitioner’s flight operations. The PIC must also meet the flight review requirements specified in 14 CFR § 61.56 in an aircraft in which the PIC is rated on his or her pilot certificate."

As you can see, the FAA calls a PL a "certificate". So, it's one and the same. Confusing words aside, the point to take home is that you will always need a PL/certificate to fly commercially. Well, unless that US law is changed. I wouldn't count on that though.

 

[HawkeyeImaging]

OK, the whole point of the conversation was misunderstood somehow. The Proposed rules set to be released this year...NOT the rules in place right now..2016.... does away with the PL requirement. If passed You Will Not Have To Have a PL to Fly Commercially. That is going away! Also if the MicroDrone rules are passed the 333 goes away for that class! All Phantoms fall under that class. So..if passed, no more 333 and no more PL! Again...I am not referring to what is in place right now.

Under the proposed rule, the person actually flying a small UAS would be an “operator.” An operator would have to be at least 17 years old, pass an aeronautical knowledge test and obtain an FAA UAS operator certificate. To maintain certification, the operator would have to pass the FAA knowledge tests every 24 months. A small UAS operator would not need any further private pilot certifications (i.e., a private pilot license or medical rating).

Under the proposed rules the person flying will become an "Operator" and no longer a PIC. The FAA knows that requiring a PL is BS and that's why they are proposing to do away with it. I see this passing with flying colors.

 

[msinger]

The Proposed rules set to be released this year...NOT the rules in place right now..2016.... does away with the PL requirement. If passed You Will Not Have To Have a PL to Fly Commercially.

I don't agree. US law says you must have a PL. Therefore, a PL will always be required. The FAA would never dare to attempt to change this law.

The FAA is creating a new type of PL. It's really that simple.

 

[HawkeyeImaging]

You don't have to agree for the law to change, which it's going to this year. If you don't agree take it up with the FAA because everything I posted came from their website. Bye Bye PL requirement and 333!!

Press Release – DOT and FAA Propose New Rules for Small Unmanned Aircraft Systems

 

[msinger]

I'm not sure clarification is going to help, but I'll give it a shot anyhow

This is the US law I'm referring to:

49 USC§ 44711
49 U.S. Code § 44711 - Prohibitions and exemption

"A person may not serve in any capacity as an airman with respect to a civil aircraft, aircraft engine, propeller, or appliance used, or intended for use, in air commerce without an airman certificate authorizing the airman to serve in the capacity for which the certificate was issued"

Again, I realize this uses the confusing "certificate" term. It's referring to a PL though.

 

[HawkeyeImaging]

Now let me give it yet another shot...the Proposed rules will change the classification of drones!!! That means no PL needed!!! Did you read the rules or are you just gonna stick to what you believe to be the 'Law that will never change"!!

Please..read the rule changes before responding back.

 

[msinger]

Yes, I've read the rules (many times). I've also spent countless hours working with the FAA directly on this topic.

Drones will still be classified as "aircraft". Therefore, they will still need to follow the above law (and all other aircraft related laws).

It's okay if you don't agree with what I'm saying. It is in fact the case though. Please call the FAA and work with them directly if you require an official second opinion.

 

[HawkeyeImaging]

A small UAS operator would not need any further private pilot certifications (i.e., a private pilot license or medical rating).
I guess the FAA is just a bunch of A-Holes that like to play mind games if they are posting stuff like this huh?

So your position is that those proposed rules will "Never" happen and that this industry will basically Never get off the ground because no one will "EVER" be able to fly a drone for compensation because they will have to have a PL?

How could you have possibly "spent countless hours working with the FAA directly on this topic" and not understand what the proposed rules are actually proposing??

Again From The Website:
Under the proposed rule, the person actually flying a small UAS would be an “operator.” An operator would have to be at least 17 years old, pass an aeronautical knowledge test and obtain an FAA UAS operator certificate. To maintain certification, the operator would have to pass the FAA knowledge tests every 24 months. A small UAS operator would not need any further private pilot certifications (i.e., a private pilot license or medical rating).

And for the record...I have spoken with several members from the FAA's office about the proposed rules to make sure I was comprehending them correctly, and I was. Yes the law AS OF RIGHT NOW states you have to have a PL...but THE NEW LAWS WHEN PASSED WILL NOT HAVE THIS REQUIREMENT!!!

 

[msinger]

Like I said above, I didn't think my clarification would help. You cannot blame a guy for trying though

 

[HawkeyeImaging]

Exactly my point as well! Lol

 

[jp_flkeys]

If you read through the exemptions you can clearly see that only about 1/4 of them are original...the rest are just copies that have been changed around with the company/person seeking exemptions info!! That goes to show what a mess the FAA really is! Also if you have not even filed yet you might as well wait to see if they pass the Microdrone rules, which from my understanding will do away with the need for a 333 exemption for anything under 4.4 lbs, which is most DJI models!! I also hear it will do away with the pilots license requirement which is a bunch of BS anyway in my opinion! I have an uncle that is a retired commercial pilot from Delta and he can't fly a drone to save his ***!!

Good Point! Just what I need to do, put my $1200 plus quad in the hands of someone who is unskilled to fly, I thought the whole idea was to Fly Safe!

 

[HawkeyeImaging]

Exactly! The safest way to fly a drone is to have experience with a "DRONE"!