AMA discussion

[samd012]

I have been reading the AMA requirements for being covered by their insurance and if I understand what I am reading correctly you need to fly from a field which meets the requirements of the AMA guidelines. The exception is a "park flyer" which has its own set of requirements including the model being under 2lbs, line of sight only and the aircraft can not be capable of speeds over 60mph. I looked but can not find the weight of a PV2+ with battery, anyone know this?
I am wondering if having AMA insurance is the best way to go with the type of flying done with a Phantom. It seems as though the AMA is more geared towards sanctioned, organized field flying.
Thoughts, comments?

 

[SilentAV8R]

There is no requirement to fly at an AMA club field. All that the AMA requires is that you operate in accordance with the Safety Code. This idea of AMA requiring you to only fly at club fields is the single most common misconception I see.

http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/105.pdf

 

[ProfessorStein]

I don't think he said the field had to be an "AMA club", he said the field had to meet "AMA guidelines"... which it correct, is it not? If the field does not meet the AMA guidelines, my understanding was they would not cover you in case of accident (at that field).

 

[pipito]

you can insurance for your quadcopter but it won't be as cheap as AMA membership

 

[damoncooper]

Joined last week. Good stuff. Great knowing I'm covered, just in case.

 

[samd012]

I don't think he said the field had to be an "AMA club", he said the field had to meet "AMA guidelines"... which it correct, is it not? If the field does not meet the AMA guidelines, my understanding was they would not cover you in case of accident (at that field).

That is the way I read it. Unless you are a park flyer. Is the PV2+ under 2lbs???

 

[SilentAV8R]

I don't think he said the field had to be an "AMA club", he said the field had to meet "AMA guidelines"... which it correct, is it not? If the field does not meet the AMA guidelines, my understanding was they would not cover you in case of accident (at that field).

There is no requirement for the flying site to meet any guidelines and there is no requirement to fly only at established flying sites. As I noted, the only requirement is that you fly in accordance with the AMA Safety Code.

BTW - I've been an AMA member for just over 47 years, I am an AMA Leader Member, and served as an Associate Vice President for 12 years. Point being, I have more than a passing familiarity with the AMA rules and requirements.

 

[ProfessorStein]

Thanks, Silent. That's definitely a misconception, then... and widely misunderstood. I know more than a few RC pilots who believe as I did.

By the way... by "meet AMA guidelines", I'm meaning that the field can not direct flight over "unprotected people", that safety lines are established, and it meets all the criteria for staying out of airport traffic patterns, etc. Are you saying that where you fly doesn't have to meet ANY of those guidelines and you'd still be covered by the insurance??

 

[RIDETOEAT]

I don't think he said the field had to be an "AMA club", he said the field had to meet "AMA guidelines"... which it correct, is it not? If the field does not meet the AMA guidelines, my understanding was they would not cover you in case of accident (at that field).

That is the way I read it. Unless you are a park flyer. Is the PV2+ under 2lbs???

454 grams / pound, 908 grams max. so no it is not. P2 weiges in at more than this in the most minimal configuration I believe.

 

[pipito]

so bottom line if you buy AMA your are not covered correct?
felipe

 

[SilentAV8R]

Thanks, Silent. That's definitely a misconception, then... and widely misunderstood. I know more than a few RC pilots who believe as I did.

By the way... by "meet AMA guidelines", I'm meaning that the field can not direct flight over "unprotected people", that safety lines are established, and it meets all the criteria for staying out of airport traffic patterns, etc. Are you saying that where you fly doesn't have to meet ANY of those guidelines and you'd still be covered by the insurance??

The field does not direct where you fly, you do. And an individual pilot can determine where the safety line is. The flight line/safety line is less important than not flying over unprotected people and structures.

As far as airports, etc. the AMA Safety Code is pretty clear, ALWAYS stay out of the way of full scale traffic.

Please read the actual Safety Code, it spells out pretty clearly what you need to do.

 

[SilentAV8R]

so bottom line if you buy AMA your are not covered correct?
felipe

You do not "But AMA" you JOIN the AMA. It is not an insurance company, it is a membership organization for aeromodeling. It provides insurance as a benefit to its members. Fly in accordance with the Safety Code and you are covered.

 

[ProfessorStein]

Please read the actual Safety Code, it spells out pretty clearly what you need to do.

Dude, I have read it. That's what's giving me fits because what you say seems to contradict what that code says.
I'm saying you must follow that "safety code" in order to be covered by their insurance for an incident, right?
And what about the other regulations that dictate that, to be a "park flyer", you have to be lighter than 2lbs... which disqualifies the Phantom? How does that come into play? It sure seems like, for the size of the Phantom, you can't be a park flyer... which leaves flying at a sanctioned field. I'm not saying that's correct, I'm just saying that's the part that has a lot of us confused. And nothing you've said to date has done anything to clear it up.

And, by the way, the field absolutely does direct flight, particularly in non-club, non-sanctioned fields. One of the fields I used to fly my fixed wing at, the runway and flight deck is situated on the top of a hill so that at one end, somewhat below the field, was a city park where people picnic'd all the time. On days where the wind was blowing east to west, you couldn't help but take off over the park. In that way, the field was directing your flight. And, I have to assume... well... one I have to assume that's one of the reasons it never was an AMA-sanctioned field... but two, I doubt very much if I would've been covered by AMA insurance if I happened to crash on the picnic'ers.

Also, you say

And an individual pilot can determine where the safety line is. The flight line/safety line is less important than not flying over unprotected people and structures.

but from the very document you posted above, it says very clearly "at all flying sites a safety line(s) must be established in front of which all flying takes place". How can you say it's "less important" than any other item in the safety code?? It's in there. So theoretically, if I don't set up a safety line when I'm flying, I'm not following the code and, thus, wouldn't be covered. You can't cherry pick which portions of the code you're going to follow and which you're not.

 

[SilentAV8R]

First, the Safety Code is the more encompassing document. If you join and fly as a Park Flyer member then there are additional restrictions such and size and speed. But even Park Flyers need to follow the Safety Code.

You are getting lost in the details. A good portion of what you see about flying sites pertains to permanent flying sites such as club sites. When flying at an informal site you can still set up a line behind which you will not fly, etc. Or simply ensure that you do not fly over people, homes, etc.

But here's one, I fly gliders, we rarely have a safety line because we fly in 360 degrees of the sky. Never been an issue with the AMA, and the soaring NATS are held at AMA HQ in Muncie.

 

[damoncooper]

So is it safe to say that Phantom pilots, if they adhere to the AMA safety guidelines (which I have no problem with BTW), are covered under the AMA insurance for public liability?

 

[SilentAV8R]

So is it safe to say that Phantom pilots, if they adhere to the AMA safety guidelines (which I have no problem with BTW), are covered under the AMA insurance for public liability?

I think that is safe to say. Basically don't fly stupid. The first thing in the Safety Code pretty much sums it up:

1. Model aircraft will not be flown:
(a) In a careless or reckless manner.
(b) At a location where model aircraft activities are prohibited.

2. Model aircraft pilots will:
(a) Yield the right of way to all human-carrying aircraft.
(b) See and avoid all aircraft and a spotter must be used when appropriate. (AMA Document #540-D.)
(c) Not fly higher than approximately 400 feet above ground level within three (3) miles of an airport without notifying the airport operator.
(d) Not interfere with operations and traffic patterns at any airport, heliport or seaplane base except where there is a mixed use agreement.

Then this part:

1. All pilots shall avoid flying directly over unprotected people, vessels, vehicles or structures and shall avoid endangerment of life and property of others.