Airport Airspace and DJI Go

[captainmilehigh]

By the way, on the B4UFly app, I've got a bundle load of heli-ports showing...... are they expecting me to contact all the helipad operator ports (in addition to the Class D I'd be flying under)?

John.

I wouldn't think so John, but you are up there in what I call the "Big Three" , KJFK, KEWR, and KLGA. I fly into KTEB at least once a week, and NewYork Center does a great job there keeping adequate separation. But, I'd still contact your local tower there at Essex (973-575-6448 or 973-575-4149) and, as always, ask if they're busy first. If not, explain your intentions to them and see what they say. Mention you are a pilot too, and get the name of the controller you speak to for future reference. I think if you agree on location and altitude limits you should be ok. Most controllers are great people, but you and I already know that dealing with them.


Sent from my iPad using PhantomPilots mobile app

 

[matthewsjl]

As I mentioned above, I'm based at KCDW so know the controllers...... should be an easy conversation. I was just surprised at the B4UFly app showing all the heli-ports with active rings.

KTEB isn't too bad either from what I hear - aside from the Friday PM push with any CBs in the air......

Cheers,

John.

 

[mrgoodwrench]

Can you provide an airport designation, or location/name? I'll try to help.


Sent from my iPad using PhantomPilots mobile app

FAA Identifier: 0C1
Lat/Long: 39-29-15.9000N / 094-46-52.1000W
39-29.265000N / 094-46.868333W
39.4877500 / -94.7811389
(estimated)
Elevation: 1007 ft. / 307 m (estimated)
Variation: 05E (1985)
From city: 2 miles S of DEARBORN, MO
Time zone: UTC -5 (UTC -6 during Standard Time)
Zip code: 64439

I think this is the information your looking for. Thank you again for any input you have.

 

[captainmilehigh]

FAA Identifier: 0C1
Lat/Long: 39-29-15.9000N / 094-46-52.1000W
39-29.265000N / 094-46.868333W
39.4877500 / -94.7811389
(estimated)
Elevation: 1007 ft. / 307 m (estimated)
Variation: 05E (1985)
From city: 2 miles S of DEARBORN, MO
Time zone: UTC -5 (UTC -6 during Standard Time)
Zip code: 64439

I think this is the information your looking for. Thank you again for any input you have.

Thanks for all that information, it was more than enough. OC1, or Triple R Airport is outside the Class C airspace of Kansas City International. It is a 'non-towered' field, so it is rarely attended. The owner/manager is Andrew Rottinghaus. His contact number is 816-935-9156 if you feel the need to contact him, but in this case you are free to fly near this area outside Class C airspace. Highway 71/29 can be referenced in this area also. Looks like the class c airspace starts about 3-4 miles east of this highway. Areas west of the highway is well outside the airspace. ,and a good place to fly. You can view this area on AirNav and look up OC1 or Triple R in Mo. (On the sectional chart.). Hope this helps.


Sent from my iPad using PhantomPilots mobile app

 

[mrgoodwrench]

Thank you for the information. There is a tower there, maybe once manned?? Not sure about that part. I know that when I was a teen, I rented the once tower, now 2 bedroom apartment but ownership has since changed. I live 4.5 miles SSE of the airport. I'm surrounded by farm ground which makes for great flying as I have lots of wide open fields with very little obstacles. My only real concern was the air traffic in the area. I frequently see crop dusters and the game warden flying very low over my property. I'm very good at judging distance on the ground but I'm not sure how accurate I am with objects flying above me. They sure appear (The game warden mainly) to be flying lower than 400 feet at times. Not a huge issue as I can hear them coming from a long way off. So far I've been able to land before they got too close. Just wanted to be sure I wasn't supposed to be notifying them pre-flight. I have tried in the past to contact the number you posted above but get an answering machine and so far, no response from the owner. Thank you again for the information. If you need any automotive info, don't hesitate to ask.

 

[mrgoodwrench]

I'll likely help anyone that asks. Unless you live near KCMO, then you have to come to the shop and pay me .

 

[Thrasher]

It does not do that. I don't get any warning at all and I am inside 5 miles. I didn't realize that until I was filming the airshow this weekend from my house. Nothing got really close, but it started me thinking.
I live near Spirit of St. Louis Airport, Chesterfield, MO SUS

I live 4.37 miles from Spirit and I called them and they gave me the hard "No" as to flying anytime inside of 5 miles from them unless it's after 11pm and before 6am.

They also told me to use the B4U Fly app.

I thought I just had to notify them but they said differently.




Sent from my iPhone using PhantomPilots mobile app

 

[mrgoodwrench]

I was under the same impression.

The rules on the FAA website state that you are required to notify, not seek permission. I was assured by local law enforcement that no employee of an airport, control tower operator or otherwise, has the authority to prevent you from flying as long as you are following the guidelines stated on the FAA website pertaining to hobby drone operation.

That being said, I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice. I'm sure someone here with far more experience than myself will chime in with more specific information.

I personally, would not hesitate to fly after notifying them, as long as I was not in close proximity to other manned aircraft.

 

[captainmilehigh]

I was under the same impression.

The rules on the FAA website state that you are required to notify, not seek permission. I was assured by local law enforcement that no employee of an airport, control tower operator or otherwise, has the authority to prevent you from flying as long as you are following the guidelines stated on the FAA website pertaining to hobby drone operation.

That being said, I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice. I'm sure someone here with far more experience than myself will chime in with more specific information.

I personally, would not hesitate to fly after notifying them, as long as I was not in close proximity to other manned aircraft.

Larry, you are right. Operators are required to notify, not seek permission. Since he is almost outside the class C airspace, I believe that he could fly there with a bit of common sense. Most controllers are a good bunch, but I think this one had a CYA approach rather than maybe set an altitude limit or other suggestions. I'd fly too.


Sent from my iPad using PhantomPilots mobile app

 

[Thrasher]

Yeah, but I'm not sure how to "notify" them if they say "no" when I do.

I do fly but keep it in line of site and keep it under 150 feet. Kind of boring but better than not flying. I was really trying to do the right thing by calling but wasn't expecting that. The guy was really nice and I think he was mostly erring on the side of caution. Still a bummer.


Sent from my iPad using PhantomPilots mobile app

 

[mrgoodwrench]

Its all in your approach. Call back and TELL them that your going to be flying at x location between x and x time. Don't be rude, but firm. The tone of your voice typically depicts the response. Sound very sure of yourself and I bet you'll get different results. With any luck, you'll get a different person this time as well. I would be very hesitant to fly without notifying them. The CYA mentality isn't a bad thing when used properly.

 

[CEB70]

So I live just over 4.5 miles from a small regional airport. FAA regs say not to fly within 5 miles of airspace, but what constitues airspace, and where does that distance start? Mid-field, end of runway? The App has the red no go over the field, but it stops at the end of the runway. I am a bit confused. Please help.

I would say as a guess, the air port property line would be the air space above the air port. I would go there and see if you can talk to the management and make arrangements when you
do fly your UAV (400 ft or below you call them and let them know you are flying they will work with you since they know you are trying to abide by the laws an rules.

 

[matthewsjl]

I would say as a guess, the air port property line would be the air space above the air port.

This is incorrect and a bad guess. See my post above for how airspace is defined in general.

 

[AerialZ]

Some comments about airspace in this conversation are very inaccurate... Hobbyist flyers should learn about airspace from a simple Internet search... Each airport and associated airspace is shown on a sectional map, which can be downloaded from the FAA website.

Very true and agreed, completely. Understanding airspace is something everyone should be educating themselves on as part of this hobby. I believe the OP was starting down the course of doing exactly that.

This is why commercial drone operators should be licensed pilots.

Completely DISAGREE.
I have seen more commercial drone operators: 'licensed private pilots with 333 exemptions' not following current FAA regulations than I even care to mention. Spend some time online as previously mentioned reviewing professional demo videos and you will see for yourself.
The pretty, panoramic shots over downtown metro areas (highly populated), then a flight over that congested highway, all while clearly out of LOS from the operator. And, do we even need to mention the 500' bubble?
Ridiculous or not, if we're talking "licensed pilots", then develop a proper licensing structure for a UAS operator. Being licensed to operate a Cessna 172 makes NO ONE an expert at operating a quadcopter or multirotor. Apples and Oranges in the same airspace.
Argue it all you want. But this mentality is helping this industry go absolutely nowhere in a hurry. I have great respect for pilots. I also have great respect for skilled and safe UAS operators. And they are two different things, completely.

 

[matthewsjl]

What follows is opinion (as a certified pilot *and* new drone operator)......

Even in the piloting world of larger aircraft, it isn't as simple as jumping from one aircraft to another. Want to fly a seaplane or a turbine - extra training required. In this respect, it makes sense that some piloting skill awareness needs to be undertaken by a drone operator whether or not you have a pilot cert.

Airspace is reasonably common across different aircraft. Whatever aircraft you want to fly, the FAA mandates a level of knowledge on airspace and procedures. It's logical to extend this to drone operators to a point. The bit that gets complicated (and is above my paygrade) is what point above the surface this is. If you fall within say a Class D airport airspace, that airspace is defined from the surface up to about 2,500ft AGL. If I fly my drone 4ft off the ground in that airspace, technically I'm violating the airspace - which makes little sense. If I'm below the tree line then I'm probably not conflicting with airspace traffic too. Above that and bets are off - although most aircraft will likely not be below 500ft AGL. This is most likely where the "don't fly above 400ft" comes in.

The problem is that the 'risk' to the drone operator is low. The risk to manned aircraft with pax is significantly higher should a collision occur. As certified pilots it's not only about the flying but also about mitigating the risks.......

John.

 

[sackpack]

You can't be within 5 miles of a PUBLIC airport. Small private airports are ok to fly within 5 miles from what I was told.

 

[mrgoodwrench]

You can't be within 5 miles of a PUBLIC airport. Small private airports are ok to fly within 5 miles from what I was told.

You were told incorrectly. The correct information can be found here Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) about the Use of Model Aircraft Near an Airport – Airports. There are several pages on that site I would advise you become familiar with.

 

[Phantom3News]

I'm 4.5 miles from our local airport here in Jefferson County, Texas I film a lot of accidents here on the hwy and very close to our airport. I'm always allowed to fly and film as long as I check in and then check out when finish. I'm only allowed 300 feet in flight and the tower operation is always there to help me out. I only fly, photo, and video for local news. 6news as well as the Port Arthur, Texas news. Im so happy you all fly being careful, respectful, and concerned! God bless you all. However, I am not allowed to fly for any reason near our airport!!!!

 

[DiverDan]

You were told incorrectly. The correct information can be found here Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) about the Use of Model Aircraft Near an Airport – Airports. There are several pages on that site I would advise you become familiar with.

Wow, thanks, Larry I think that clears up a question I was about to ask. I had a lot of conflicting info about NFZ distances, and I had been using distances from the edges of last year's DJI pink circles, going up at a 15 degree angle from there, reaching the max 400' AGL at about 1/4 mile.

I also found info that the DFW limit was 5 Nautical Miles out, which ruled out flying in a Carrollton TX park with great photo ops like large birds, and restricted me to the extreme north end of the park without notifying the DFW tower.

In Carrollton, TX, I'm also within the 5 mile limit for Addison Airport, and the FAA tower manager there was very understanding in granting me conditional standing permission to fly up to 200 feet around my home and in a nearby greenbelt even closer to the airport, without need for notification every time.

As I now understand it, the distance is 5 statute miles from the designated center of the airport, which I found using the GPS coordinates on Wikipedia.

It now looks like the entire McInnish park is well outside the notification area. Of course I always fly safely, mostly well below the 400 foot limit, and will always give way to larger aircraft.

The graphic below shows my current understanding of the NFZ around DFW, both in statute and nautical miles. I'd appreciate any corrections.

 

[sackpack]

You were told incorrectly. The correct information can be found here Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) about the Use of Model Aircraft Near an Airport – Airports. There are several pages on that site I would advise you become familiar with.

You were told incorrectly. The correct information can be found here Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) about the Use of Model Aircraft Near an Airport – Airports. There are several pages on that site I would advise you become familiar with.

. Your drone must remain within sight at all times. I'm sure you follow that rule