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Airport Airspace and DJI Go

Discussion in 'Pro/Adv Discussion' started by Pappy44, May 16, 2016.

  1. Pappy44

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    So I live just over 4.5 miles from a small regional airport. FAA regs say not to fly within 5 miles of airspace, but what constitues airspace, and where does that distance start? Mid-field, end of runway? The App has the red no go over the field, but it stops at the end of the runway. I am a bit confused. Please help.
     
  2. captainmilehigh

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    Give me the airports location and I'll try to help.


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  3. tcope

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    To make it easy... it applies as to the ground under the Phantom to the tower in the airport. So you are well within that area.

    It does not state that you _cannot_ fly. You may want to read those regulations again. It states if you are going to fly within 5 miles that you need to notify the tower before and work out a plan to fly. There is some debate as to how this works but I'd error on the side that you need their permission.

    I've done this before and I only needed to call them once I started and let them know the general area where I was flying, the max altitude and for how long. I then needed to call once I was done.

    If you home is close and you might fly a lot, you may be able to get a general "release" agreement with the tower.

    If it's a Class A or B airport the Go app might restrict your altitude to 300'.
     
  4. StratocasterDave

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    The FAA has a free app called B4UFly. It tells you, by your location the status.

    What's the airport identifier? All you may need to do is call the airport operator (I use the free app Airnav FBO to get that) and let them know where and when you plan to fly.

    Dave
     
  5. StratocasterDave

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    Close. But Class A is above 18,000' msl. So if your near and airport on Mount Everest....
     
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  6. tcope

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    That has nothing to do with this. What is programmed into the DJI Go app is what's programmed into it. Once you get within 5 miles of a Class A or B airport the _DJI app_ shows a warning of this and that your altitude if limited to 300'. Watch this video

    No FLY Zones | DJI

    The altitude limit is 35' at 1.5 miles up to 400' at 5 miles. That is the firmware imposes these limits.
     
  7. StratocasterDave

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    I will have to go back and check my service volumes again in the FAR's. I'm about five years out but if I remember correctly class A is above 18,000 to flight level 600. I don't know any airports in the air that high.
    … I was just trying to make a joke.
     
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  8. Pappy44

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    It does not do that. I don't get any warning at all and I am inside 5 miles. I didn't realize that until I was filming the airshow this weekend from my house. Nothing got really close, but it started me thinking.
    I live near Spirit of St. Louis Airport, Chesterfield, MO SUS
     
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  9. captainmilehigh

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    It is in class D airspace, but given your location you should be ok. But to be safe, call the tower 314-890-7290 and speak with the controller. The airport is manned 24/7, so contacting them should be easy. Ask FIRST if they are busy, if not, ask them if you could speak to them about what your intentions are. Get the controllers' name for future reference. Most controllers are very accommodating when they know your intentions and know where you will be.


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  10. tcope

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    As mentioned, if it's Class D it won't be on DJI's "radar". However, you are _required_ to obtain permission from the tower to operate the drone within 5 miles. I'd _highly_ recommend that you discuss this with the tower. As I mentioned, they may just give you open permission to fly under a certain altitude.

    IMHO, DJI's No Fly Zone system is _completely_ broken. It's a disservice to their customers. It used to list many correct locations as NFZ. Now it appears to show only the largest of airports. They were going to set up a system where everything was listed and you could fly there with an account but I've never seen this happen. So now people can be flying in or around a NFZ and not even know it's a NFZ. A huge step in the wrong direction.
     
    #10 tcope, May 16, 2016
    Last edited: May 16, 2016
  11. Pappy44

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    good info, that is what i was looking for, thanks!
     
  12. Ike

    Ike

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    Some comments about airspace in this conversation are very inaccurate... This is why commercial drone operators should be licensed pilots. Hobbyist flyers should learn about airspace from a simple Internet search... Each airport and associated airspace is shown on a sectional map, which can be downloaded from the FAA website.

    Airspace generally looks like an inverted step-pyramid, circular sections that get larger in diameter as elevation gets higher. Elevations are often designated from ground level not sea level. It is also important to become familiar with the approach patterns and flight traffic around an airport, regardless of size. This will make you a safer and therefore better flyer.
     
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  13. matthewsjl

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    All, first post here so don't flame the newbie. I've just got a P3P and have yet to take her out.

    I happen to be a Private/Commercial rated active pilot so can explain a little more and answer some questions.

    There are no Class A airports. Class A is above 18,000ft.....

    Here's a link to SkyVector NYC "Sectional" chart of New York: SkyVector: Flight Planning / Aeronautical Charts

    NYC Airspace is one of the more complicated layouts in the country. There are three major airports (JFK, La Guardia and Newark - KJFK, KLGA and KEWR respectively) and then additional corporate and smaller airports (Teterboro, Morristown, Westchester, Essex County and Farmingdale - KTEB, KMMU, KHPN, KCDW). Further out to the East, you also have Islip (KISP).

    Any airports marked on the map with a blue dot or blue runway layouts have associated airspace. Any purple airports marked are airports but don't have FAA controlled airspace around them.

    Obviously, JFK, Newark and La Guardia are major airports (technically Class B airspace). Here's a link to all Class B airports: List of Class B airports in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Class B airports generally have the inverted wedding cake layouts referred to above. Let's look at JFK. Immediately around the airport you can see a notation on the chart of 70/SFC (it'll be 70 over SFC on the chart). This means the airspace bounded by the thick airspace lines is defined from the surface up to 7,000ft. Now look just to the south of JFK and the shoreline. That airspace is marked as 70/+05 meaning that this small portion bounded is airspace that is restricted from 500ft up to 7,000ft. Move further out (south) into the bay and you see the notation 70/+15 so that means restricted airspace from 1,500ft up to 7,000ft. You have to look quite hard sometimes to see exactly where the boundaries are but you can work it out.

    Class C airports don't have quite as extensive airspace but it's common to have the same kind of inverted wedding cake layouts. Look at Long Island Mac Arthur on Long Island to the East (airspace is purple). Same notations for altitude.

    Class D. Let's use my home airport of Essex County (KCDW) to the NW of Newark (KEWR). Class D airports generally have operating control towers and the airspace is a simple cylinder around the airport. Look for the blue dashed airspace around the airport. Inside the blue dashed ring you'll see a notation of "[27]" that means the airspace is effective from the surface up to 2,700ft (Mean Sea Level). As a side note, Class D airports often shut down overnight and the Class D airspace is also inactive (this varies by control tower). If you're in any doubt that some of these airports are small and not busy, let me put that to rest. Teterboro airport near NYC is a Class D but averages 470+ operations per day and most of these are private jets - so not small aircraft (think Gulfstreams etc).

    Another complicating factor is that all the altitudes are adjusted for barometric pressure - all planes have altimeters that can be adjusted.

    Lastly, here's a link to the FAA Airspace publication.

    Clear? I'd be happy to answer a few questions. Obviously, the above doesn't count as formal training but gives you an idea of how the airspace is mapped out on a 2D chart.

    I fall at about 4.5nm from KCDW so I'll be having a chat with my local controllers in the near future to see what they want to know. Technically, the airspace I'm in goes from the surface up to 2,700ft so even flying @ 20ft I'm violating the airspace (seems crazy doesn't it!).

    Cheers,

    John
     
  14. captainmilehigh

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    I too have tried to explain what you did to those who asked. But, you'll find out like I did there are those who dispute what you try to convey. But, I keep trying. BTW, I'm a retired Commercial Airline pilot, and current corporate pilot based in the southeast. (KingAir B200 and Citation CJ3) So welcome to the PhantomPilots Forum. Blue skies and calm winds.


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  15. matthewsjl

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    Well, eventually I guess any dispute may be with the FAA - and we know what their motto is...... "we're not happy until you're not happy" :) I'm smaller metal than you (C182 & C185 on amphibs) but have a little time in a PC-12.......

    Cheers,

    John.
    PS: to the FAA folks, I've actually usually found you all more then helpful ;)
     
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  16. captainmilehigh

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    Yeah, they're not that bad. After over 30 years dealing with them I got used to the ever changing mindset.


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  17. mrgoodwrench

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    Am I required to contact the airports classified as 'small airports' shown with green circles on the B4UFly FAA app? There is one 4.5 miles from my house. I've tried to call them but get an answering machine. The tower is rarely manned. Its used mainly for private planes and crop dusters.
     
  18. captainmilehigh

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    Can you provide an airport designation, or location/name? I'll try to help.


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  19. matthewsjl

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    By the way, on the B4UFly app, I've got a bundle load of heli-ports showing...... are they expecting me to contact all the helipad operator ports (in addition to the Class D I'd be flying under)?

    John.
     
  20. tcope

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    Sorry for the confusion but this can be explained much more quickly. I should have said "category", not "class". This aligns with what DJI calls them. Everything else does not really matter to drone flyers.