Airplane Radar?

[deltamike]

Please do not rely upon an APP or some other electronic device to keep the "souls on board" safe. Use your eyes, ears, and common sense.

Well said Wyoming. What else is there to say?

I am in the habit of landing pretty sharpish if I hear an aircraft nearby, its the only way to fly.

Where I live we have RAF helicopter trainers coming overflying well below 400 feet not to mention the odd air ambulance at 0 ft. to anything upwards, so I suppose it can be similar anywhere else in the world.

My adage is - If you can hear it, see it or smell it - hit the deck :lol:

 

[MadMitch88]

Mitch, it's really pretty simple. If you don't have clear line of sight, don't fly. If you're under a flight path but are not in restricted airspace, watch the airspace before you fly, know what altitude the restricted airspace starts, stay alert to all air traffic and stay well below it. There is no app for that.

For areas with low flying helicopters, you have to be even more prepared. It's not uncommon for a helicopter to pass by at 250ft AGL in LA. Clear line of site, knowledge of active helipads, a method of rapidly dumping altitude and even ditching are needed. High visibility strobes are a good idea too. Where there are tall objects that obscure visibility, stay at or below their height using only the airspace that a helicopter would not use.

Should you be in open airspace with a helicopter approaching, strobes on, flip to manual mode and let it fall fast.

Ian,

I get your general vibe and I agree with it. However, we partake in a hobby that is already horribly infested with ambiguous laws and terminology. Using a phrase like "absolutely confident there are no aircraft in the area" is a fool's dream at best. I prefer you use a phrase like "use extreme common sense and be very aware of your surroundings and all available data that you can". We don't live in a world of absolutes --- and the RC hobby is certainly a world of many shades of gray.

For example, let's suppose I was clinically deaf and hovering my Phantom at 350 ft. AGL over a large field in order to film a herd of deer. Suddenly, a Medevac helicopter comes zooming from behind me and collides with my bird and crashes. Worst case scenario is that I find myself on trial for "reckless endangerment" but there is no way I get convicted since I'm deaf and couldnt hear the helicopter approaching my area, and the FAA states I have every legal right to be flying my multi-rotor up to 400' AGL. Eyewitness say I was not operating my craft in an unsafe or malicious manner. I am acquitted of all charges, but still feeling bad that a helicopter crashed. That would be the realistic outcome of that scenario.

So I plead with all of you --- let's mitigate the confusion in our beloved hobby and use very clear and concise terms when it comes to serious matters like operating in airspace shared by manned aircraft. It's the only responsible and intelligent way we can defeat the immense paranoia that's brewing in the public consciousness about our passion for this hobby.

 

[ianwood]

I think we're pretty much saying the same thing. Let me rephrase to say, to the best of your ability make sure the immediate area is clear and have a clear LOS approaching ground level so you can see what's coming. If someone is deaf, they may want to have a pair of ears with them to help out.

 

[MadMitch88]

Mitch, I disagree. It's nowhere near worthless. Is a soul worthless?
Ever caused a heart to stop beating? How do you think you would feel if you did? I think "ABSOLUTELY CONFIDENT" is a perfect choice of words. Aren't you glad you weren't flying your bird where that "medical helicopter" needed to go. Pilots are not always looking for a speck on the horizon. Sometimes they need to look at engine gauges, radios, charts, approach plates, and the other pilot or crew members.

Passing on the talking stick now.
Sure hope the OP got the message.

You jabbermonkies can start on me now. Good Freakin' Luck :lol:

Sorry but "absolutely confident" is delusional terminology in this hobby! Like I said, the only way to be "absolutely confident" there are no manned aircraft near our Phantoms is to leave the Phantom at home in a box! There are just way too many potential scenarios involving things like low clouds, high winds to mitigate sound of approaching aircraft, obstructions like buildings and trees and hills to prevent us from seeing approaching planes, etc to make us feel "absolutely confident" we know there arent any aircraft rapidly approaching our Phantoms.

It's probably a lot wiser to be using phrases like "be very aware of your surroundings" and "always be looking and hearing for approaching aircraft" rather than using deceptive phrases like "be absolutely confident" that no aircraft are in the area.

 

[GoodnNuff]

I'd like to see your opinions on this flying field:

We have a new officially designated Park Flyer site in the City of SeaTac. It's under development, but open for flying Park Flyer designated airplanes and helicopters; (electric 2# or less, max 60mph); no AMA required. The site is open 7 days, FREE, and is at 3000 S. 150th St. Paved runway, setup tables, off-street parking SOON.

enter that address; 3000 South 150 Street, SeaTac, WA on google maps (the city of SeaTac gets it's name from the Airport). Now pull back on your view of the map. This field is only 3 blocks or so from the airport? Why is there an actual RC flying field less than a mile from a large International Airport? I've flown planes here and you have airliners landing just behind our backs as we stand at the flight line.

 

[IflyinWY]

Mitch, I disagree. It's nowhere near worthless. Is a soul worthless?
Ever caused a heart to stop beating? How do you think you would feel if you did? I think "ABSOLUTELY CONFIDENT" is a perfect choice of words. Aren't you glad you weren't flying your bird where that "medical helicopter" needed to go. Pilots are not always looking for a speck on the horizon. Sometimes they need to look at engine gauges, radios, charts, approach plates, and the other pilot or crew members.

Passing on the talking stick now.
Sure hope the OP got the message.

You jabbermonkies can start on me now. Good Freakin' Luck :lol:

Sorry but "absolutely confident" is delusional terminology in this hobby! Like I said, the only way to be "absolutely confident" there are no manned aircraft near our Phantoms is to leave the Phantom at home in a box! There are just way too many potential scenarios involving things like low clouds, high winds to mitigate sound of approaching aircraft, obstructions like buildings and trees and hills to prevent us from seeing approaching planes, etc to make us feel "absolutely confident" we know there arent any aircraft rapidly approaching our Phantoms.

It's probably a lot wiser to be using phrases like "be very aware of your surroundings" and "always be looking and hearing for approaching aircraft" rather than using deceptive phrases like "be absolutely confident" that no aircraft are in the area.

Okay Mitch,
Perhaps you are willing to make safety concessions which I am not. Your entire plethora possible scenarios, and flying too close to a cloud, not looking around when it's windy, or getting yourself in a position in relation to a building or trees does sound like a good way to end up in a collision with a manned aircraft. Hmm, maybe you should re-think some of your decisions. There will be plenty of "manned aircraft" falling from the sky soon enough, if most folks think as you do.

The problem with that is, there are (and I did notice you did not address this) "souls on board" those manned aircraft.

I'm going to have lunch and chew on something else now. Feel free to invite me to chew on you again.

Hope a plane doesn't fall on me because some moron was flying his drone in the approach of the local airport.

 

[MadMitch88]

Okay Mitch,
Perhaps you are willing to make safety concessions which I am not. Your entire plethora possible scenarios, and flying too close to a cloud, not looking around when it's windy, or getting yourself in a position in relation to a building or trees does sound like a good way to end up in a collision with a manned aircraft. Hmm, maybe you should re-think some of your decisions. There will be plenty of "manned aircraft" falling from the sky soon enough, if most folks think as you do.

The problem with that is, there are (and I did notice you did not address this) "souls on board" those manned aircraft.

I'm going to have lunch and chew on something else now. Feel free to invite me to chew on you again.

Hope a plane doesn't fall on me because some moron was flying his drone in the approach of the local airport.

My technical explanation apparently went over yer head.

Go back to reading cheesy romance novels so you can enlighten us with repetitive phrases like "souls on board".

:mrgreen:

 

[GoodnNuff]

Sorry but "absolutely confident" is delusional terminology in this hobby! Like I said, the only way to be "absolutely confident" there are no manned aircraft near our Phantoms is to leave the Phantom at home in a box!

Not sure where you live, but such places are fairly easy to find in the western states. Lots of open space and Big Sky.

There are just way too many potential scenarios involving things like low clouds,

Probably not the best flying conditions to start with. Not much point to flying in the clouds. I've done it here in the PNW, and unless you like frame after frame of white, what's the point?

high winds to mitigate sound of approaching aircraft

, Why are you even flying? If the winds are so high they'd mask the sound of approaching aircraft, then the conditions are too dangerous for your kites, RC planes, or your Phantom toy.

obstructions like buildings and trees and hills to prevent us from seeing approaching planes, etc

If you need to worry about a tree or building blocking your view of an approaching plane, get off the damned runway! That is the only place I can think of where a tree or building would be a danger to your LOS...

 

[IflyinWY]

Dear Mitch,

I got your technical explanation.
You lack confidence, put your desire to fly wherever and whenever ahead of the safety of souls on board an aircraft, and just like to argue.

I'm going to the Halloween Parade.

Have a nice day.

 

[MadMitch88]

Dear Mitch,

I got your technical explanation.
You lack confidence, put your desire to fly wherever and whenever ahead of the safety of souls on board an aircraft, and just like to argue.

I'm going to the Halloween Parade.

Have a nice day.

Hey Wyoming,

Something tells me there's a "parade of delusions" goin' down inside that noggin' of yours. Dreaming about those "absolute certainties" when it comes to flying RC aircraft LOL.

Cheers!
Mad Mitchie :mrgreen:

 

[MadMitch88]

Not sure where you live, but such places are fairly easy to find in the western states. Lots of open space and Big Sky.

So you're telling me DJI Global is only supposed to sell their products to customers in the Western states with "big sky" wide open spaces that can see an approaching aircraft from 5 miles away?

Um yeah, that sounds like a perfectly reasonable business model.

If you need to worry about a tree or building blocking your view of an approaching plane, get off the damned runway! That is the only place I can think of where a tree or building would be a danger to your LOS...

I'm starting to think you don't go outside very much LOL. I lost count of how many times I've been standing next to a patch of woods or a building and suddenly a helicopter comes buzzing over my head at 200 or 300 ft. AGL. Usually only hear it about 10 or 15 seconds before it's flying over me. That's not a lot of time to quickly descend a Phantom from a legal 400' to 0' AGL, unless you initiate a CSC.

 

[GoodnNuff]

Not sure where you live, but such places are fairly easy to find in the western states. Lots of open space and Big Sky.

So you're telling me DJI Global is only supposed to sell their products to customers in the Western states with "big sky" wide open spaces that can see an approaching aircraft from 5 miles away?

Um yeah, that sounds like a perfectly reasonable business model.

If you need to worry about a tree or building blocking your view of an approaching plane, get off the damned runway! That is the only place I can think of where a tree or building would be a danger to your LOS...

I'm starting to think you don't go outside very much LOL. I lost count of how many times I've been standing next to a patch of woods or a building and suddenly a helicopter comes buzzing over my head at 200 or 300 ft. AGL. Usually only hear it about 10 or 15 seconds before it's flying over me. That's not a lot of time to quickly descend a Phantom from a legal 400' to 0' AGL, unless you initiate a CSC.

Or maybe I was saying "I don't know what the geography is like where you live, but where I live such spaces are fairly common..."

I have been known to spend time outdoors in my 56 years, some of that time near trees. And buildings.
Can't say I've ever had a helicopter sneak out from behind a tree at low altitude and surprise me. In fact most helicopters I know
suck at the whole stealth thing. The sound of their rotors usually blows it for them.

Where do you live anyway? Sounds like it is quite congested, both ground and air. With sneaky helicopters too.

 

[morph000]

Can't speak for other areas but it tracks commercial jets, private planes and helicopters out my way !
High alt work will be 100km from major airport and air traffic close to zero 99.99999% of the time but pays to be real sure...

 

[MadMitch88]

Or maybe I was saying "I don't know what the geography is like where you live, but where I live such spaces are fairly common..."

I have been known to spend time outdoors in my 56 years, some of that time near trees. And buildings.
Can't say I've ever had a helicopter sneak out from behind a tree at low altitude and surprise me. In fact most helicopters I know
suck at the whole stealth thing. The sound of their rotors usually blows it for them.

Where do you live anyway? Sounds like it is quite congested, both ground and air. With sneaky helicopters too.

I was at a large park in Cincinnati, OH a few days ago, and that Medevac helicopter was probably only 1,500 ft. distance from me at around 300' AGL and I could barely hear it moving --- mainly because of 15 MPH wind moving from me towards the chopper. If I was hovering at 400' in it's general flight path, it would've been almost impossible to have it descend to the ground in the requisite time.

The basic point I'm making is that too many people in here live in these cute little perfect worlds where every Phantom pilot operates in wide open fields with "big sky" and excellent visibility for miles in all directions and can easily see & hear an approaching aircraft and have ample time to bring it to the ground so the "souls on board" can safely pass overhead with zero risk of collision. Sure must be nice to live in this delusional realm, eh?

The real world that I live in says that consumer UAVs are becoming more common every year in all types of environments like big cities, hilly and windy areas, etc. and using phrases like "you must have absolute certainty that no aircraft are in the area" is just plain silly and useless. The best we can hope for is that UAV pilots use all their senses (including common sense) to minimize risk of having their bird collide with a manned aircraft. For the most part that will happen, but unfortunately accidents are going to occur regardless. That's the only absolute certainty I see.

 

[IflyinWY]

The parade was awesome. Children were in heaven, parents were thrilled. The weather was unheard of. I was dressed as "First Class Mail".

There was that one child though, maybe his name was Mitch. There's always one of them.

:twisted:

Hmm, should I :?:

Naw. Well, maybe a little

Wonder if we scared the OP away from this forum. What do you thing MM? Didja spread your hate and discontent thick enough?

Ya grumpy twit.

I live in Wyoming, USA, and this is how we define these words:
"Ya" means "you"
"Grumpy" means "less that pleasant"
"Twit" means "someone who unnecessarily jabbers on and on about something that is wrong, stupid or insignificant so they can hear (or see) themselves talk (what they have typed) because they are simply incapable of learning anything more than their 6% brain has already absorbed

Theory of life by me.

Moderators, rest assured, I will not jump into the "Grumpy Twit's" pool again, for at least a week or two.

 

[MadMitch88]

Wonder if we scared the OP away from this forum. What do you thing MM? Didja spread your hate and discontent thick enough?

Ya grumpy twit.

I live in Wyoming, USA, and this is how we define these words:
"Ya" means "you"
"Grumpy" means "less that pleasant"
"Twit" means "someone who unnecessarily jabbers on and on about something that is wrong, stupid or insignificant so they can hear (or see) themselves talk (what they have typed) because they are simply incapable of learning anything more than their 6% brain has already absorbed

Theory of life by me.

Moderators, rest assured, I will not jump into the "Grumpy Twit's" pool again, for at least a week or two.

Hmm, your post sounds like an admission of defeat and dejection by a superior intelligence like me. Hard to say tho, since you're using gibberish a 1 yr. old would use.

Let me know if you wanna engage in future debates --- sometimes a cat enjoys toying with a mouse just for the Hell of it. :mrgreen:

 

[Idbird]

:lol: You still beating a dead horse?
The OP wasn't a bad question. The consensus here is, let's use common sense and be wary of unexpected aircraft in the area!

 

[IflyinWY]

:lol: You still beating a dead horse?
The OP wasn't a bad question. The consensus here is, let's use common sense and be wary of unexpected aircraft in the area!

I agree,
I've learned quite a bit from this thread.

Never thought for one moment there was an app telling folks where planes are.
I wonder if my neighbor knows he needs to let them know when he's flying in his Piper Cub.

 

[MadMitch88]

:lol: You still beating a dead horse?
The OP wasn't a bad question. The consensus here is, let's use common sense and be wary of unexpected aircraft in the area!

I agree!

But we also need to stop using silly phrases like "be absolutely certain no aircraft are in the area before you fly a Phantom". That ranks up there in delusional thinking with genius phrases like "Mission Accomplished"

 

[THG Aviation]

If you're really concerned find out what the flight pattern is at the airport. Arriving and departing aircraft will most often follow this pattern including altitudes and descent approaches. You need to know what runway they're using but if you know the runway orientation or wind direction you can figure this out. If the airport has a tower that's manned it's even more probable that the planes will stay in these patterns. If there's no tower or it's not manned the planes will be calling the pattern as they approach the runway to alert other planes...in this case a radio receiver tuned to the approach or pattern frequency might be helpful.