Aftermarket Batteries $95 USD

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Wow, I stopped at the third paragraph :confused:
DJI tried that trick on the P2 series and they found away around it so buy what you want, it is your prerogative.

image.gif


See what I did there... Bobby Brown... :D
 
Wow, I stopped at the third paragraph :confused:
DJI tried that trick on the P2 series and they found away around it so buy what you want, it is your prerogative.

View attachment 65307

See what I did there... Bobby Brown... :D

Yeah, I guess 19 chapters is a lot to expect anyone to go through. I was sitting out by the lake in one of those rocking swings, with a glass of wine and just got on a roll.

Chapters 10 and 13 were ones I want people to see though, so I'm going to repeat them here:

Here's a question I've never seen asked or answered - but let's say that I have a Phantom that is 2 years old and completely out of warranty. If I purchase a brand new battery from DJI and it fails during its second flight - will DJI replace or repair my entire Phantom? Even though the Phantom itself is over 2 years old and completely out of warranty? Or will they simply replace the battery because it's the only component that is actually covered by a warranty?

I am suggesting that *some* aftermarket batteries are BETTER than the DJI OEM batteries but I don't want to be misquoted on that. I'm absolutely NOT saying that ALL aftermarket batteries are better than the DJI OEM batteries. There are some really low quality crappy batteries out there as well. The trick for we consumers seems to be in determining which batteries are "the best". So here are a few different ways one could do that:
a) find an impartial 3rd party review online
b) buy a few different models & tear them down yourself
c) read online user reviews
d) research other battery models from the same aftermarket manufacturer
e) blindly believe statements from the company that sells the highest priced battery that their battery is best

I just don't get why so many people are willing to accept e) as the truth even though I'm sure they can see the obvious conflict of interest!

Live and let live is a great philosophy - but too many pilots here assume that anyone wanting aftermarket batteries is simply a cheapskate trying to save a couple dollars - and that all aftermarket batteries are inferior to DJI batteries. Both of those assumptions are incorrect and my previous (lengthy) message just tried to explain that.

My question at the beginning of this reply is not rhetorical. I'm genuinely curiously what DJI would do in the above scenario - what happens if a new battery is defective and fails (causing a crash) while its powering an older Phantom. Does the battery warranty extend to cover the repair/replacement of the drone too?
 
Warranty's and insurance are a big waste of money if you never need to use them. For those that never experience an incident in which a warranty or insurance can be used - the only benefit they provide is to make a nervous person feel less nervous!

It's obvious from your post, that the thought of having to pay for a repair or replacement of your bird after a crash - is something that makes you nervous or causes you stress. So you probably fly responsibly, safely, cautiously and do everything else in your power to minimize the risk of a crash. Good for you! We should all fly that way - all the time!

Not everybody feels the same way as you though. Hopefully we all fly safely - but some of us don't believe the DJI propaganda that says their battery is better than anyone else's. We know that there are manufacturers out there that can and do make batteries that perform as well as, or better than DJI branded batteries.

We also know that claims of the entire Phantom warranty becoming void simply for flying with an aftermarket battery is false and it's nothing but fear-mongering spread by DJI representatives and under-informed DJI fans. The truth is that if you are involved in a crash and request warranty repair/replacement from DJI, they will investigate and determine the root cause of the crash. If the root cause is NOT an aftermarket component (and not pilot error), the warranty repair will be performed!

If the root cause is due to a battery failure and you are using an after-market battery, you are out of luck.

If the root cause is due to a prop spinning off and you are using after market props - you are out of luck.

BUT - If the root cause is a defective ESC or GPS module, your repair will be processed - no matter what props and what battery you are using!

The bottom line is: if the after market component is responsible for your crash, your DJI warranty is not valid - but if your after market part (whether it be props, the battery, landing gear, prop guards, etc) is NOT the root cause of the crash - your warranty is still valid.

But then there are also those of us that are no longer protected by a warranty because it's been over a year. If we believe that a particular after-market battery is better and more reliable than the DJI branded battery - we should be allowed to make that choice and use that battery. Why should DJI be able to force us to use a lower quality battery?

Here's a question I've never seen asked or answered - but let's say that I have a Phantom that is 2 years old and completely out of warranty. If I purchase a brand new battery from DJI and it fails during its second flight - will DJI replace or repair my entire Phantom - even though it's 2+ years old? Or will they simply replace the battery because it's the only component that is covered by a warranty?

In any case - *you* get a feeling that you're doing all you can to protect your investment by ensuring that your warranty remains valid - so that you're made whole financially if your battery fails. I want the same type of feeling - but mine is less about the money and more about avoiding the crash in the first place! I want to feel like I am doing all that I can to prevent my Phantom from crashing - and for me, that comes from buying a battery that I trust more than the DJI battery. You don't care as much about crashing as I do - because you know that after a crash, your bird will be replaced at no cost to you. I want to avoid the crash completely. It just so happens to be a bonus for me that I can buy a better quality battery for a lower price - and that bonus actually also serves to show how much DJI is actually gouging their customers. If an after market battery maker can produce a better quality product AND make a decent profit while selling it for considerably less than the OEM equivalent part - it highlights the greed of the OEM. DJI should have educated us on their website by dissecting their own battery and a few different aftermarket batteries and SHOWN US why their batteries are better...but they didn't (because they're not!). They implemented firmware code to reject any non-DJI battery. If the DJI batteries were truly better - this step would not have been required. This was all about capturing the most possible profit from a required commodity. If this type of business practice is not illegal (and apparently, it's not) - it should be!

But having said that - I don't want anyone to misquote me. I'm definitely NOT saying that ALL aftermarket batteries are better than DJI's OEM batteries. There are definitely some lower quality batteries out there as well.

The trick is determining which ones are "the best". Here are a few different ways one could do that:
a) find an impartial 3rd party review online
b) buy a few different ones & tear them down yourself
c) read online user reviews
d) research other batteries from the manufacturer
e) believe the propaganda from the company that sells the highest priced battery

With all those options listed together, don't you find it funny (and at the same time a bit sad or naive) how so many pilots have chosen (e) "fiercely believe the company that sells them for the highest price when they say ours are the best!"?

Warranties are not the end all and be all of drone ownership. You don't want to crash because it's expensive. I don't want to crash because I don't want to crash! I don't want to have to wait while the drone is off being fixed. I don't want to damage anyone's property. (I don't fly over people so that's not a concern), but I don't want the hassle of taking it to get repaired or the expense of owning a second one "just in case". Because of that - I want to choose to fly with the batteries I believe are best, the props I believe are best, etc!

I get it. You're happy flying with lesser quality batteries - because if/when they crash, you'll get everything fixed for free - at least until the warranty expires - and that's fine for you. You're happy paying a little extra for your batteries even if you don't realize that the "extra" covers executive bonuses and an "insurance" premium towards replacing some % of the warranty claims they know will occur. It doesn't actually mean that they are of greater quality.

You and I just have differing priorities. The only thing that's wrong with your position is if it is based on an incorrect assumption that the DJI batteries are "better" than anything else that's out there - or if you think that all other pilots will share your priorities. You should realize that what's right for you is definitely not the right choice for everybody!

"DJI batteries are best!!!" That's definitely what they want you to think - especially since they are clearly the most expensive choice - but if that were true, it would be worth it (in Marketing) for DJI to spend a few thousand dollars and commission an independent analysis of their OEM batteries against 5 of the top aftermarket batteries - and then Dwayne the results on their website. But don't hold your breath waiting for such a bake-off to occur. DJI would look horrible if such an evaluation were to really occur and they scored anything other than "first by a mile". My guess would be that they would come in a mediocre third place and that even that unimpressive 3rd place rating would only be secured due to a significant level of bribery and collusion between DJI and the reviewer (who 6 months later would suddenly appear on the payroll of DJI's marketing division!)

LOL! Ok - perhaps the last sentence is a little too cynical - but I do feel sorry for anyone that believes that the DJI OEM batteries are the best simply because DJI has stated that they are!


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I don't know where you like to go with your comment. I was refereeing to the overpriced batteries DJI is selling and that not even DJI people believe in them. If a company comes out of Shen Zen like DJI does, there is a really good chance to buy crap anyhow. I made the mistake to read reviews about the drones without researching DJI's bad reputation in quality and customer support. (Not mentioning the F rating at the BBB.org at all. No I won't! )
 
Yeah, I guess 19 chapters is a lot to expect anyone to go through. I was sitting out by the lake in one of those rocking swings, with a glass of wine and just got on a roll.

Chapters 10 and 13 were ones I want people to see though, so I'm going to repeat them here:

Here's a question I've never seen asked or answered - but let's say that I have a Phantom that is 2 years old and completely out of warranty. If I purchase a brand new battery from DJI and it fails during its second flight - will DJI replace or repair my entire Phantom? Even though the Phantom itself is over 2 years old and completely out of warranty? Or will they simply replace the battery because it's the only component that is actually covered by a warranty?

I am suggesting that *some* aftermarket batteries are BETTER than the DJI OEM batteries but I don't want to be misquoted on that. I'm absolutely NOT saying that ALL aftermarket batteries are better than the DJI OEM batteries. There are some really low quality crappy batteries out there as well. The trick for we consumers seems to be in determining which batteries are "the best". So here are a few different ways one could do that:
a) find an impartial 3rd party review online
b) buy a few different models & tear them down yourself
c) read online user reviews
d) research other battery models from the same aftermarket manufacturer
e) blindly believe statements from the company that sells the highest priced battery that their battery is best

I just don't get why so many people are willing to accept e) as the truth even though I'm sure they can see the obvious conflict of interest!

Live and let live is a great philosophy - but too many pilots here assume that anyone wanting aftermarket batteries is simply a cheapskate trying to save a couple dollars - and that all aftermarket batteries are inferior to DJI batteries. Both of those assumptions are incorrect and my previous (lengthy) message just tried to explain that.

My question at the beginning of this reply is not rhetorical. I'm genuinely curiously what DJI would do in the above scenario - what happens if a new battery is defective and fails (causing a crash) while its powering an older Phantom. Does the battery warranty extend to cover the repair/replacement of the drone too?

To your question about the poor battery quality.
DJI won't cover it! Period! Why? Now that DJI encrypted the log files, customers could not point out the battery as THE point of the disaster. And DJI will always point out that their battery worked absolutely fine. There is a point on WHY DJI started to encrypting there files. THEY MUST HAVE SOMETHING TO HIDE! If not, nobody would start encrypting log files.
 
Now that DJI encrypted the log files, customers could not point out the battery as THE point of the disaster.
It's still possible to decrypt them -- if you don't mind paying for that service.
 
It's still possible to decrypt them -- if you don't mind paying for that service.
Thanks for the information. But that's not the point here. It's the cover up DJI is doing because customers are asking why? I did ask actually as newbie why we can't see where the drone crashed. Answer: "You have to send the logs in." Seriously? We have to put a tent and food for 3 weeks in the car and wait in the area where our drone crashed because DJI won't implement a small app to see it right away? What has DJI to cover up? Do other drone manufacturer cover up the logs too? (And yes. There are tracking devices out there but we wouldn't need them with a small addition to the app because we actually track our drones already. DJI couldn't tell us where the drones crashed if it wouldn't be the case.) Questions, questions.

Back to the topic:
I still don't trust DJI's batteries. Don't care if they call them OEM. :p
 
Thanks for the information. But that's not the point here. It's the cover up DJI is doing because customers are asking why? I did ask actually as newbie why we can't see where the drone crashed. Answer: "You have to send the logs in." Seriously? We have to put a tent and food for 3 weeks in the car and wait in the area where our drone crashed because DJI won't implement a small app to see it right away? What has DJI to cover up?
Assumptions and conspiracy theories aside, the flight logs have never been in a readable format. We only have log readers today because people figured out how to reverse engineer the process. I suspect DJI never meant for them to be read. If they did, they would have provided them in a plain text format.
 
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There is a member in this forum that recently mentioned about a aftermarket battery. I actually spent a deal of time checking the performance and reliability over numerous flight logs. I found very good results. Now, I believe those batteries to be some type of dji refurbished battery. The best part was the firmware in them was not jacked up like the current factory battery.
 
The best part was the firmware in them was not jacked up like the current factory battery.
Can you explain what this means in detail?
 
The firmware appears to not be programmed like the usual updated firmware. Example, I remember seeing the 3rd battery cell as lead-off cell. In the factory it has always been the 1st cell and then the others.

I also found voltage amounts to be higher in the lower stages/levels. The current factory firmware has been setup with limits that come about based on remaining percentages. (None of which provides a better flying experience)
 
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The firmware appears to not be programmed like the usual updated firmware. Example, I remember seeing the 3rd battery cell as lead-off cell. In the factory it has always been the 1st cell and then the others.

I also found voltage amounts to be higher in the lower stages/levels. The current factory firmware has been setup with limits that come about based on remaining percentages. (None of which provides a better flying experience)

Wouldn't DJI be able to produce cheaper batteries if they stripped the electronics/firmware from each individual battery and attached them instead into the battery compartment of the drone itself? Isn't the fact that they embedded electronics and firmware into the battery itself simply an attempt to keep other battery manufacturers out of the game?

Why couldn't the product have been designed so that we only need to supply the battery cells themselves? Everything else that's required could/should be built in to the drone and/or charger.


Sent from my iPhone using PhantomPilots
 
Wouldn't DJI be able to produce cheaper batteries if they stripped the electronics/firmware from each individual battery and attached them instead into the battery compartment of the drone itself? Isn't the fact that they embedded electronics and firmware into the battery itself simply an attempt to keep other battery manufacturers out of the game?

Why couldn't the product have been designed so that we only need to supply the battery cells themselves? Everything else that's required could/should be built in to the drone and/or charger.


Sent from my iPhone using PhantomPilots

....and the way I see it is, Why wouldn't dji program these Hi-Tech $150 batteries to provide a greater battery performance that gives us additional fly time?

Just what is the point of a battery that has only reduced the AirCraft's performance?

All anyone has to do is pay attention to what has taken place with the aircraft since dji began for the 1st time programming these smart batteries around 11 months ago. There is not one single benefit or improvement added into the Phantom 3 Professional or Advanced. I believe the same can be said for the P4's and Inspire's as well which use the same battery technology.
 
Wouldn't DJI be able to produce cheaper batteries if they stripped the electronics/firmware from each individual battery and attached them instead into the battery compartment of the drone itself? Isn't the fact that they embedded electronics and firmware into the battery itself simply an attempt to keep other battery manufacturers out of the game?

Why couldn't the product have been designed so that we only need to supply the battery cells themselves? Everything else that's required could/should be built in to the drone and/or charger.

Sent from my iPhone using PhantomPilots
Because they're in business to make money, to invest in their business to make better and more exciting products for us to buy...
 
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Because they're in business to make money, to invest in their business to make better and more exciting products for us to buy...

That sounds like a pretty lame justification to me. There's a big difference between making a healthy profit and extorting your customers.

But if that's true - then let's have them focus their R&D resources on building those better, more exciting products - and I'll happily open up my wallet and pay for them.

It's disappointing to see lame "new" half-baked features like the ones they introduced in the Phantom 4 but I guess that's the best we can expect when they've got the majority of their R&D team focused on finding ways to increase their post-purchase market share up from 98.5% to 100%.

The same logic that allows device manufacturers to intentionally design their consumables (batteries) to be impossible for other battery companies to replicate - could be applied to other industries - and if it were, all the people defending DJI would be up in arms.

Let's say that Ford found a way to add a substance to fuel - perhaps using nano technology - that allows them to "sign" gasoline. Then let's say that Ford updated the firmware in all existing Ford vehicles sold within the past 2 years...and the new firmware would somehow be able to read the gasoline signature to determine if you bought it from Ford or just bought the generic stuff - and if it WASN'T bought from Ford - the vehicle would refuse to turn on.

That sounds pretty ridiculous, doesn't it? Yet it's *exactly* what DJI did and is doing regarding batteries!

Of course, designing the fuel "signature" and the firmware to read it won't be cheap. It could end up costing Ford an extra $2/gallon to implement this type of thing. But if they were to do it, they'd have Ford owners at their mercy and could go ahead and charge $5/gallon extra - to recoup the $2 the new system cost to design and implement - and an additional $3/gallon that they would also be entitled to - simply because they are in the business of making money and they can use to to build better and more exciting cars! And hey - why stop at $3/gallon extra profit? If they're in the business of making money - why not $10/gallon extra?

But back to DJI - at what price do you think DJI has crossed the line at? DJI batteries are currently around $150 each. Would you still think it "fair" if DJI raised the price to $375 each? Or $500?

I think we should have laws that make it illegal to artificially create a monopoly on consumables - such as batteries, ink, toner, gasoline, etc... Hopefully, one day we'll get that law!


Sent from my iPhone using PhantomPilots
 
That sounds like a pretty lame justification to me. There's a big difference between making a healthy profit and extorting your customers.

But if that's true - then let's have them focus their R&D resources on building those better, more exciting products - and I'll happily open up my wallet and pay for them.

It's disappointing to see lame "new" half-baked features like the ones they introduced in the Phantom 4 but I guess that's the best we can expect when they've got the majority of their R&D team focused on finding ways to increase their post-purchase market share up from 98.5% to 100%.

The same logic that allows device manufacturers to intentionally design their consumables (batteries) to be impossible for other battery companies to replicate - could be applied to other industries - and if it were, all the people defending DJI would be up in arms.

Let's say that Ford found a way to add a substance to fuel - perhaps using nano technology - that allows them to "sign" gasoline. Then let's say that Ford updated the firmware in all existing Ford vehicles sold within the past 2 years...and the new firmware would somehow be able to read the gasoline signature to determine if you bought it from Ford or just bought the generic stuff - and if it WASN'T bought from Ford - the vehicle would refuse to turn on.

That sounds pretty ridiculous, doesn't it? Yet it's *exactly* what DJI did and is doing regarding batteries!

Of course, designing the fuel "signature" and the firmware to read it won't be cheap. It could end up costing Ford an extra $2/gallon to implement this type of thing. But if they were to do it, they'd have Ford owners at their mercy and could go ahead and charge $5/gallon extra - to recoup the $2 the new system cost to design and implement - and an additional $3/gallon that they would also be entitled to - simply because they are in the business of making money and they can use to to build better and more exciting cars! And hey - why stop at $3/gallon extra profit? If they're in the business of making money - why not $10/gallon extra?

But back to DJI - at what price do you think DJI has crossed the line at? DJI batteries are currently around $150 each. Would you still think it "fair" if DJI raised the price to $375 each? Or $500?

I think we should have laws that make it illegal to artificially create a monopoly on consumables - such as batteries, ink, toner, gasoline, etc... Hopefully, one day we'll get that law!


Sent from my iPhone using PhantomPilots
Oh please... Your analogy with fuel makes no sense. No one would buy the Ford cos they have a choice. But go and buy a part for your Ford, Chevvy or VW and recon on them making anything from 100 to 1000% profit for that part. On MLI the dealer makes 3-5%.
I got a rear washer jet for a VW Polo the other day and this tiny piece of plastic was $13. I needed a new rear parking sensor for my wife's Ford Focus... that was $65. The Golf part probably cost VW 2c and Ford the sensor about $1.
How much is a spare battery for a Typhoon or an Autel?
 
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A better analogy would be where a car manufacturer recommends a certain make of oil you should use, they don't insist that you do though and leave it to you to make your choice, just imagine for a second the hell that would break loose if after putting Halford 's oil in you had your oil light come on and a warning flash up 'unable to start engine, inferior oil detected', there would be riots outside the dealerships, but this is exactly what dji have done, they have barred you from making or having a choice, the battery may not be inferior at all just like the oil, it could in some cases be made by the same people, and another thing; where do these battery companies get their shells from, I wouldn't put it past dji to sell them to third party battery suppliers.

Is there a patent on these batteries, is that why dji don't want you to use third party batteries? If so what happens when the patent runs out, that means other battery companies are free to make batteries; but dji won't allow that to happen, they're not allowing to happen patent or no patent.

Why don't cordless drill manufacturers stop people using aftermarket batteries?
 
That sounds like a pretty lame justification to me. There's a big difference between making a healthy profit and extorting your customers.

But if that's true - then let's have them focus their R&D resources on building those better, more exciting products - and I'll happily open up my wallet and pay for them.

It's disappointing to see lame "new" half-baked features like the ones they introduced in the Phantom 4 but I guess that's the best we can expect when they've got the majority of their R&D team focused on finding ways to increase their post-purchase market share up from 98.5% to 100%.

The same logic that allows device manufacturers to intentionally design their consumables (batteries) to be impossible for other battery companies to replicate - could be applied to other industries - and if it were, all the people defending DJI would be up in arms.

Let's say that Ford found a way to add a substance to fuel - perhaps using nano technology - that allows them to "sign" gasoline. Then let's say that Ford updated the firmware in all existing Ford vehicles sold within the past 2 years...and the new firmware would somehow be able to read the gasoline signature to determine if you bought it from Ford or just bought the generic stuff - and if it WASN'T bought from Ford - the vehicle would refuse to turn on.

That sounds pretty ridiculous, doesn't it? Yet it's *exactly* what DJI did and is doing regarding batteries!

Of course, designing the fuel "signature" and the firmware to read it won't be cheap. It could end up costing Ford an extra $2/gallon to implement this type of thing. But if they were to do it, they'd have Ford owners at their mercy and could go ahead and charge $5/gallon extra - to recoup the $2 the new system cost to design and implement - and an additional $3/gallon that they would also be entitled to - simply because they are in the business of making money and they can use to to build better and more exciting cars! And hey - why stop at $3/gallon extra profit? If they're in the business of making money - why not $10/gallon extra?

But back to DJI - at what price do you think DJI has crossed the line at? DJI batteries are currently around $150 each. Would you still think it "fair" if DJI raised the price to $375 each? Or $500?

I think we should have laws that make it illegal to artificially create a monopoly on consumables - such as batteries, ink, toner, gasoline, etc... Hopefully, one day we'll get that law!


Sent from my iPhone using PhantomPilots

Your whole rant was hyperbole at its finest.
First of all, you as a consumer have the choice to buy the product or not. When the phantom 3 came out it was no surprise that the batteries would be be limited to DJI batteries only.
They did not sell you a drone (or Ford) and let you use whatever batteries (gas) you wanted to and then send a firmware update forcing you to only use their batteries (gas again).

The phantom 3 and 4 are by far the best selling drones ever made...your assertion about 'lame, disappointing, half baked' features and that their R&D team are too busy working on squeezing that last 1.5% of profits is detached from reality. Show some sales numbers or evidence to back up your claims. You cant because they are ridiculous.

You also rant about the $150 batteries...which doesnt make sense because OEM DJI batteries can be found for as little as $102 shipped. Which means the dealers are probably getting the batteries for somewhere around 70-80 or so...a fair price for the smart batteries IMO.
DJI batteries are also competitively priced, albeit a bit higher, than other comparable drones.
I think that rules out any extortion...
 
A better analogy would be where a car manufacturer recommends a certain make of oil you should use, they don't insist that you do though and leave it to you to make your choice, just imagine for a second the hell that would break loose if after putting Halford 's oil in you had your oil light come on and a warning flash up 'unable to start engine, inferior oil detected', there would be riots outside the dealerships, but this is exactly what dji have done, they have barred you from making or having a choice, the battery may not be inferior at all just like the oil, it could in some cases be made by the same people, and another thing; where do these battery companies get their shells from, I wouldn't put it past dji to sell them to third party battery suppliers.

Is there a patent on these batteries, is that why dji don't want you to use third party batteries? If so what happens when the patent runs out, that means other battery companies are free to make batteries; but dji won't allow that to happen, they're not allowing to happen patent or no patent.

Why don't cordless drill manufacturers stop people using aftermarket batteries?

Because drill companies dont constantly put out updates to add features and make their drill run better.
If they did then it would be easy for them to add code to the firmware locking out competitors batteries.

Good grief...this is simple stuff.........
 
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