A Bozo Phantom pilot strikes again

[bugeyedriver]

surplussunshine,

The area of the flight was in Class B airspace, controlled from the surface to 11,000 ft. According to this 2014 FAA fact sheet, "UAS operations are currently not authorized in Class B airspace, which exists over major urban areas and contains the highest density of manned aircraft in the National Airspace System."

GadgetGuy,

You're right about it being safer for helos to fly over major roads / freeways instead of congested built up metropolitan areas. It's easier to find a safe space to autorotate into in case of an emergency.

Also, most large cities with a dense helicopter presence publish "Helicopter Routes" which are designed to bring the helo to the airport at low altitude, avoiding the normal fixed wing traffic patterns as much as possible. These routes are commonly defined by road intersections and highway paths, as most helicopters operate strictly under visual flight rules and are accustomed to navigating in that manner. (Enlarge the highlighted helo route map and zoom in on the lower left to read some of the route instructions and you'll see what I mean.)

 

[GadgetGuy]

Here are the rules the FAA wants you to know about:

• Follow community-based safety guidelines, as developed by organizations such as the Academy of Model Aeronautics (AMA).
• Fly no higher than 400 feet and remain below any surrounding obstacles when possible.
• Keep your sUAS in eyesight at all times, and use an observer to assist if needed.
• Remain well clear of and do not interfere with manned aircraft operations, and you must see and avoid other aircraft and obstacles at all times.
• Do not intentionally fly over unprotected persons or moving vehicles, and remain at least 25 feet away from individuals and vulnerable property.
• Contact the airport or control tower before flying within five miles of an airport.
• Do not fly in adverse weather conditions such as in high winds or reduced visibility.
• Do not fly under the influence of alcohol or drugs.
• Ensure the operating environment is safe and that the operator is competent and proficient in the operation of the sUAS.
• Do not fly near or over sensitive infrastructure or property such as power stations, water treatment facilities, correctional facilities, heavily traveled roadways, government facilities, etc.
• Do not conduct surveillance or photograph persons in areas where there is an expectation of privacy without the individual’s permission (see AMA’s privacy policy).

What The FAA Wants You To Know Before You Fly Your Drone

You confusing FAA Guidelines with "FAA Rules"
Very few of your bullet points cited are actual FAA Rules that apply to hobbyists. The only FAA Rules that do apply to hobbyists all fall into the category of reckless flying. Don't fly recklessly. The AMA can take their rules and shove them where the sun doesn't shine! They do not apply to us!

 

[GadgetGuy]

GadgetGuy, You're right about it being safer for helos to fly over major roads / freeways instead of congested built up metropolitan areas. It's easier to find a safe space to autorotate into in case of an emergency.

Also, most large cities with a dense helicopter presence publish "Helicopter Routes" which are designed to bring the helo to the airport at low altitude, avoiding the normal fixed wing traffic patterns as much as possible. These routes are commonly defined by road intersections and highway paths, as most helicopters operate strictly under visual flight rules and are accustomed to navigating in that manner. (Enlarge the highlighted helo route map and zoom in on the lower left to read some of the route instructions and you'll see what I mean.)

Thank you for that validation!
Some people just don't understand common sense!

 

[GoodnNuff]

You confusing FAA Guidelines with "FAA Rules"
Very few of your bullet points cited are actual FAA Rules that apply to hobbyists. The only FAA Rules that do apply to hobbyists all fall into the category of reckless flying. Don't fly recklessly. The AMA can take their rules and shove them where the sun doesn't shine! They do not apply to us!

LOL
Whatever....

Follow the link before you get all emotional.

 

[GadgetGuy]

LOL
Whatever....

The fact that you don't know or care about the distinction, and are falsely asserting on this Forum that Guidelines are now FAA Rules the is the very reason the public and the media now believe that the Guidelines are Laws! They are not!

 

[GoodnNuff]

The fact that you don't know or care about the distinction, and are falsely asserting on this Forum that Guidelines are now FAA Rules the is the very reason the public and the media now believe that the Guidelines are Laws! They are not!

Again:
Reign in your emotional reaction and follow the link.
My post is a direct quote from my link, from the FAA.

Your advice on the other hand, is dangerous and potentially costly to a drone pilot.

Now go find something else to work yourself up over...

 

[LuvMyTJ]

No more on this debate. You can look them up on the FAA's web site. They are suggested guidelines that the AMA & FAA put out together. Follow them or don't (you should), but the bickering stops now. Carry on.

 

[GoodnNuff]

No more on this debate. You can look them up on the FAA's web site. They are suggested guidelines that the AMA & FAA put out together. Follow them or don't (you should), but the bickering stops now. Carry on.

Thank you.

 

[GadgetGuy]

No more on this debate. You can look them up on the FAA's web site. They are suggested guidelines that the AMA & FAA put out together. Follow them or don't (you should), but the bickering stops now. Carry on.

Thank you for validating that they are only suggested guidelines and not "FAA Rules" as claimed by the poster!

 

[GoodnNuff]

Thank you for validating that they are only suggested guidelines and not "FAA Rules" as claimed by the poster!

Please GadgetGuy, I have asked you three times to follow my link. What I posted is a quote. A quote means those are not my words. I made no such claim, the link did.

To the OP: Please follow my link to the article that describes the "rules" as laid out by several interested groups working together for the benefit of our hobby.

Rules as defined by various dictionaries:
a: a prescribed guide for conduct or action
b: an accepted procedure, custom, or habit

As you can see, "rules" are not binding like "laws" are. Laws always have a consequence for not following them, rules usually don't.

As you can also see, some on this forum are confused by the terms.

 

[surplussunshine]

It's pretty cut and dry.

Guidelines are suggestions they are not laws.

We can bicker about links and what we think, but FAA has made it clear they suggest.

 

[Bryce]

Personally, I love these AMA types... I know they aren't going to to be a nuisance in my airspace.

 

[GoodnNuff]

The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), in partnership with the Association for Unmanned Vehicle Systems International, Academy of Model Aeronautics and the Small UAV Coalition, launched a new website today that aims to educate the public about how to safely fly unmanned aircraft systems (UAS)....
...Here are the rules the FAA wants you to know about:

• Follow community-based safety guidelines, as developed by organizations such as theAcademy of Model Aeronautics (AMA).
• Fly no higher than 400 feet and remain below any surrounding obstacles when possible.
• Keep your sUAS in eyesight at all times, and use an observer to assist if needed.
• Remain well clear of and do not interfere with manned aircraft operations, and you must see and avoid other aircraft and obstacles at all times.
• Do not intentionally fly over unprotected persons or moving vehicles, and remain at least 25 feet away from individuals and vulnerable property.
• Contact the airport or control tower before flying within five miles of an airport.
• Do not fly in adverse weather conditions such as in high winds or reduced visibility.
• Do not fly under the influence of alcohol or drugs.
• Ensure the operating environment is safe and that the operator is competent and proficient in the operation of the sUAS.
• Do not fly near or over sensitive infrastructure or property such as power stations, water treatment facilities, correctional facilities, heavily traveled roadways, government facilities, etc.
• Do not conduct surveillance or photograph persons in areas where there is an expectation of privacy without the individual’s permission (see AMA’s privacy policy).

What The FAA Wants You To Know Before You Fly Your Drone

 

[gunslinger]

I'm not going to issue a warning at this time, but we need to keep this sort of crap down to a dull roar please...

-slinger

 

[GadgetGuy]

I'm not going to issue a warning at this time, but we need to keep this sort of crap down to a dull roar please...

-slinger

Thank you!

 

[Case29247]

Not to go too far off on a tangent here--as you do make good points.

However as you know there are major differences between "traditional" RC aircraft from the 70s and your Phantom 3.

Like flying so far away. Especially in an aircraft that's more symmetrical in appearance and smaller than your more traditional RC. I don't care how experienced or skilled a pilot may be but anything more than 30 feet away and you have little depth perception to guide you either. I think having FPV is more helpful and useful than "line of sight alone" for orientation--especially when used appropriately with "clearing turns/yaws".

Yes many people point out that the technology is not reliable. Yet little 2-stroke engines (from the 70s) aren't completely reliable either, no gas gauges and nitro fuel with a short shelf life. Yes you could glide with an engine failure, thus not be completely reliant on that technology, but a quad copter only flies because of a computer making calculations much faster than a human brain can comprehend. You lose one motor and your toast. I don't care how "skilled" one is flying in ATTI mode--you're still relying heavily on a computer and an array of internal sensors. Not flying beyond visual range is very important for traditional RC but not so important for aircraft who's very flying abilities is as reliable its own sensors and computer and thus its FPV and "fail safe" RTH abilities. My point is that keeping a P3 within visual range doesn't make its operation inherently or significantly "safer" like it does for non-FPV RC airplanes.

BTW, jlummel, I love your signature!

You make good points....up to a point.

First point: It took only a little experience to become proficient at determining the direction and attitude of the aircraft from a distance. For instance, the reflection of the light off the wings and tail. Much easier than the quadcopter. Also, the old planes were much larger. Even the trail of exhaust could be seen at great distance.

Another really important factor: A fixed wing aircraft usually doesn't just drop from the sky with engine failure. In fact, it is common to land dead-stick, especially with the beginners models that didn't have throttle control.

The Bozo's are going to ruin it for the rest of us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[GadgetGuy]

The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), in partnership with the Association for Unmanned Vehicle Systems International, Academy of Model Aeronautics and the Small UAV Coalition, launched a new website today that aims to educate the public about how to safely fly unmanned aircraft systems (UAS)....
...Here are the rules the FAA wants you to know about:

• Follow community-based safety guidelines, as developed by organizations such as theAcademy of Model Aeronautics (AMA).
• Fly no higher than 400 feet and remain below any surrounding obstacles when possible.
• Keep your sUAS in eyesight at all times, and use an observer to assist if needed.
• Remain well clear of and do not interfere with manned aircraft operations, and you must see and avoid other aircraft and obstacles at all times.
• Do not intentionally fly over unprotected persons or moving vehicles, and remain at least 25 feet away from individuals and vulnerable property.
• Contact the airport or control tower before flying within five miles of an airport.
• Do not fly in adverse weather conditions such as in high winds or reduced visibility.
• Do not fly under the influence of alcohol or drugs.
• Ensure the operating environment is safe and that the operator is competent and proficient in the operation of the sUAS.
• Do not fly near or over sensitive infrastructure or property such as power stations, water treatment facilities, correctional facilities, heavily traveled roadways, government facilities, etc.
• Do not conduct surveillance or photograph persons in areas where there is an expectation of privacy without the individual’s permission (see AMA’s privacy policy).

What The FAA Wants You To Know Before You Fly Your Drone

In the interests of full disclosure, the citation link above is NOT from the FAA! It is from a two year old article written in 2014 for the website Techcrunch.com, written by a journalist giving his neophyte understanding of FAA Guidelines, and representing them as the Rules of the FAA, which they are decidedly not! Don't take your legal advice from an article written by a website journalist in December of 2014! (techcrunch dot com/2014/12/22/what-the-faa-wants-you-to-know-before-you-fly-your-drone/) Instead, go directly to the FAA website for current law!

 

[LuvMyTJ]

After all that... really.

Doesn't matter soon anyways. Here is a link to the current news today. NEW 11/2/15: FAA task force to recommend drone registry | DJI Phantom Forum

Thread closed.