400 ft - Guideline?

The AMA is the only community-based organization I know of. The majority of hobbyists are not members. They have a whole slew of rules in addition to the FAA's rules.

The AMA _likes_ to call themselves that but it really does not mean anything. Along those lines _I_ could call myself a "community-based organization and make up all kinds of stuff. The question then is if that organization actually has any rights to dictate your actions while flying. If I'm on your land and you want to tell me what I can and cannot do while in your land, fine. Recourse is to ask me to leave. This verbage is about as vague as you can get. It creates a door and no one knows what is on the otherside. Citys and towns see this as a means to control airspace in their area. I'm no so sure that is even legal.
 
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The AMA _likes_ to call themselves that but it really does not mean anything.
Perhaps the FAA needs to produce a list of these organizations and/or the rules required to become one. I don't know how anyone can be flying legally right now without following this rule too.
 
The AMA _likes_ to call themselves that but it really does not mean anything. Along those lines _I_ could call myself a "community-based organization and make up all kinds of stuff. The question then is if that organization actually has any rights to dictate your actions while flying. If I'm on your land and you want to tell me what I can and cannot do while in your land, fine. Recourse is to ask me to leave. This verbage is about as vague as you can get. It creates a door and no one knows what is on the otherside. Citys and towns see this as a means to control airspace in their area. I'm no so sure that is even legal.
It's not the AMA that has labeled itself. To date, the AMA is the only organization that the FAA has recognized as a "community based organization" relative to Part 101. Their Safety Code only used to apply to AMA members. Now that they are stamped by the FAA, the hobby drone flying world is obligated to take that safety code seriously.
 
It's not the AMA that has labeled itself. To date, the AMA is the only organization that the FAA has recognized as a "community based organization" relative to Part 101. Their Safety Code only used to apply to AMA members. Now that they are stamped by the FAA, the hobby drone flying world is obligated to take that safety code seriously.

The FAA stated, community-based organizations _such as_ the AMA. The AMA did not deny themselves this label so yes... they have labeled themselves as such. There was no test, there was no application, there was no permit, there was nothing. "Community-based organization is simply a broad and open door term that the FAA included in order to leave the door open for any local entity to impose their more restrictive requirements. The AMA just happens to be one of the larger and highly organized organizations around. However, this _only_ allows the AMA to impose their greater restrictions on AMA members. Saying that the FAA recognized the AMA as a CBO is saying nothing. I can be a CBO, you can be a CBO, anyone reading this post can be a CBO if they want. It simply takes someone _stating_ that they are a CBO or behaving in that capacity.

As you mentioned, you are only subject to AMA guidelines if you are a member. Does the AMA even have any non-FAA guidelines that don't apply to flying at AMA events?
 
Ahhhh, but I hasten to point out (in case anyone is wondering), you do not have to JOIN any such organization. FAA has simply listed the AMA as an example. Thus, it is perfectly acceptable to go online, and read and follow AMA's guidelines - with exceptions where obviously treading on FAA Regs (e.g., 3 miles vs 5). FAA always trumps any community based organization.
 
Perhaps the FAA needs to produce a list of these organizations and/or the rules required to become one. I don't know how anyone can be flying legally right now without following this rule too.

There is no list, there are no requirements, there is no definition. It's simply an open door to allow anyone to create their own rules and apply them to people under their control. For example, lets say I want to run a drone race. Part of the rules is that you can't fly higher then 50' or out of bounds. These rules are for public airspace and are more restrictive then the FAA's regulations. So they are allowed by the FAA. It's nothing more glamorous then that.

The problem I see with this is that US Code states only the FAA can regulate airspace. This opened ended verbage would seem fly in the face of that (no pun intended).
 
Ahhhh, but I hasten to point out (in case anyone is wondering), you do not have to JOIN any such organization. FAA has simply listed the AMA as an example. Thus, it is perfectly acceptable to go online, and read and follow AMA's guidelines - with exceptions where obviously treading on FAA Regs (e.g., 3 miles vs 5). FAA always trumps any community based organization.

IMHO, the AMA makes it seem like being a member of the AMA allows you more freedom in your flights. This is simply not the case and, it seems to me, appears to be done to increase AMA membership. I'm not passing judgement on them or their members. I think some of what they have done has been beneficial.
 
There is no list, there are no requirements, there is no definition. It's simply an open door to allow anyone to create their own rules and apply them to people under their control. For example, lets say I want to run a drone race. Part of the rules is that you can't fly higher then 50' or out of bounds. These rules are for public airspace and are more restrictive then the FAA's regulations. So they are allowed by the FAA. It's nothing more glamorous then that.

The problem I see with this is that US Code states only the FAA can regulate airspace. This opened ended verbage would seem fly in the face of that (no pun intended).
You can rail against it all you want...the internet is a great for fruitless arguments. Because of the nature of FAA's enforcement inclinations, your interpretation, and mine, of Part 101 is likely moot. I can't imagine spending the amount of mental energy on the subject that you have for something that has little or no effect on the vast majority of recreational flyers. I just don't see the practical value in picking nits.
 
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You can rail against it all you want...the internet is a great for fruitless arguments. Because of the nature of FAA's enforcement inclinations, your interpretation, and mine, of Part 101 is likely moot. I can't imagine spending the amount of mental energy on the subject that you have for something that has little or no effect on the vast majority of recreational flyers. I just don't see the practical value in picking nits.

I'm not trying to be the defacto rule on the matter. I have offered supports for things like the VLOS regulation (which I think is agreed with). Some of this (about the AMA) is just my opinion and I think that is reasonable for this forum.

Consider this.. the US National Parks don't want drones flown in their parks. However, they have not attempted to regulate airspace, only what someone does on their land. They were very smart in this regard. However, from the FAA's "open door" wording, it would appear that they are allowing anyone to make local regulations as long as it does not interfere with the FAA regulations. Allowing locals to govern airspace also appears to be in direct violation of US Code. So yes, I say the wording the FAA (about community based organizations) is bad wording. I think it was intended to allow very limited control by local organizations for thinks like their own events. Some government entities (states, cities, counties, towns, etc.) appear to be using this to put blanket restrictions over airspace.
 
I have offered supports for things like the VLOS regulation
Even that seems to be open to interpretation.

What exactly does VLOS mean? Is a tiny dot far away in the sky considered VLOS? Or, does it mean you can clearly see your aircraft, the direction it's facing, etc.? Are flashing green lights in a pitch dark sky VLOS?
 
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What exactly does VLOS mean? Is a tiny dot far away in the sky considered VLOS? Or, does it mean you can clearly see your aircraft, the direction it's facing, etc.? Are flashing green lights in a pitch dark sky VLOS?

You just need to be able to see it. It could be a dot and you'd not need to know anything about it's direction of the way it was facing. Personally, I've never paid it much mind. I seldom fly and not go beyond VLOS.
 
You just need to be able to see it. It could be a dot and you'd not need to know anything about it's direction of the way it was facing.
Do you know of any FAA documents that describe this in detail?
 
Do you know of any FAA documents that describe this in detail?

The one I posted above. It's the FAA's interpretation of VLOS. I'm taking it as written... that you only need to be able to "see" the drone. No requirement or language about determining what direction it was facing or moving. Just sight of the drone.
 
Do you know of any FAA documents that describe this in detail?

Not really, for recreational folks. But for 107's, yes....

§ 107.31 Visual line of sight aircraft operation.

(a) With vision that is unaided by any device other than corrective lenses, the remote pilot in command, the visual observer (if one is used), and the person manipulating the flight control of the small unmanned aircraft system must be able to see the unmanned aircraft throughout the entire flight in order to:
(1) Know the unmanned aircraft’s location;
(2) Determine the unmanned aircraft’s attitude, altitude, and direction of flight;
(3) Observe the airspace for other air traffic or hazards; and
(4) Determine that the unmanned aircraft does not endanger the life or property of another.

(b) Throughout the entire flight of the small unmanned aircraft, the ability described in subsection (a) of this section must be exercised by either:
(1) The remote pilot in command and the person manipulating the flight controls of the small unmanned aircraft system; or
(2) A visual observer.
 
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Hello everybody,

I am just starting to do some real estate aerial work to make some extra cash on the side (I have my part 107). However, I have a property coming up that sits on a 10 acre plot of land. I submitted a waiver 3 weeks ago to fly at a ceiling of 600 ft and still haven't heard back from them. The property is outside of the 5 mile airport range.

By the way, if you are flying commercially, the "5 mile airport range" rule doesn't apply. You best make sure you are in class G airspace, otherwise you'll also need a request for authorization to operate in controlled airpace.
 
By the way, if you are flying commercially, the "5 mile airport range" rule doesn't apply. You best make sure you are in class G airspace, otherwise you'll also need a request for authorization to operate in controlled airpace.[/

Right, and for the sake of clarification (because I was confused on this as well) if you look on a sectional chart make sure you pay attention to the floor/ceiling of the different classes. Very important to know how to read these.
 
If you're in anything other than class G airspace, you just need permission from the surrounding airports that may have a ground level restriction or a shelf below 600ft. If you're in class G airspace, you're free to fly while following the rules (e.g. maintaining line of site, whether that's done by you, or by someone else, even if the use of binoculars is temporarily needed). As someone else mentioned, the guideline is 400ft AGL, so if there are tall structures in the vicinity, you can fly 400ft above them. This was all in my part 107 training.
 
The AMA is the only community-based organization I know of. The majority of hobbyists are not members. They have a whole slew of rules in addition to the FAA's rules.

What is that ratio of member to non-member hobbyists? What's the source of that information?
 
Isn't it amazing what a single unconstitutional bureaucracy can do to simple hobbyists with endless rules and regulations so vague that even they struggle to define them? Kinda scary when you think about expanding that across the entire government. ;)
 

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