400 Foot Altitude Quiz

Now when you guys say LOS/Line Of Sight, you are meaning that the remote control has direct LOS to the drone, correct? Not necessarily meaning that you can SEE the drone? I'm sure it's not too far away when you're not able to actually see it anymore. And what is FPV?

FPV = First Person View. That is you see what the camera sees.

There is a difference between LOS and VLOS. However, people also sometimes use LOS to mean VLOS. So that obviously adds to the confusion.

If say we are talking about AMA or FAA recommendations on the proper way to fly model aircraft, then it really should be said VLOS. I can fly FPV and still maintain LOS between me and my Phantom. In fact, for LONG distance (2+ miles), that is even more critical and crucial to maintaining LOS or you will lose signal much sooner.
 
Forest Hill Bridge is 900 feet above the river below. The mountain tops are another 400 feet above the bridge level. I'm standing at river level, how high can I fly my drone?
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Just got back from a trip to Jamacia Took of from the beach flew up the side of the mountain to 1490 to take a picture
But at no time was I over 400 ft as i hugged the trees within reason all the way up.
We all know it is 400 ft above AGL aka below your bird
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you know how they say age is just a number..
i think that applies here.. just use common sense.
if you want to fly 850 feet under the bridge then there should be no issue with it.
some people here have that 400 number stuck in their heads and anything that is talked about 400.1 + will get a "your not safe, your breaking the rules, your a danger to us all" type of comment.
just be smart about how and where you fly. you'll be fine.
Here's another way to look at it. If the common-sense or legal rules say 400' AGL, then a sensible person might want to restrict themselves to 350' AGL to leave themselves a little room for error. Of course, that assumes that the operator is typical in that they aren't perfect. For those few that are perfect....
 
Forest Hill Bridge is 900 feet above the river below. The mountain tops are another 400 feet above the bridge level. I'm standing at river level, how high can I fly my drone?
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Some gorgeous photos in this thread. Thanks for sharing.

Well, I don't claim to be the world's most experienced pilot. However, I might be among the "most cautious" ones. And that may be wrong. I really think that most pilots of real airplanes are very cautious and play it safe. (Well I used to be a pilot. To be frank, I haven't been in the left-hand seat for thirty-five years, the same length of time I've been married. It was part of my wedding vows. One of the best decisions/concessions I ever made. Thank you Lord.)

As a pilot, I had no problem with the 1,000' and 500' minimums. If my 35 year hiatus from piloting hasn't affected my memory, the real FAA rules state 500' and 1,000' above, within a couple thousand feet of any local obstacle. Not above the ground...Above any obstacles.

Personally I wouldn't have thought of flying under a bridge, up or down a winding river gorge, circling a tall building, etc. But that's just me. I knew the rules, and I also have a lot of common-sense. I respect both.

Let's face it, it also makes a UNIVERSE of difference if you're standing on the ground piloting a drone, versus in the left-hand seat (or a passenger seat) of a real plane. Maybe if we started thinking like real pilots, the drone rules (now guidelines) would make more sense.
 
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Congratulations to the OP. Great topic. You definitely started the fire on this one. MY thoughts changed several times reading this post.

My thoughts.
1. If the FAA says the limit IS 400 ft, but does NOT state AGL, AMSL or other reference, then how are we supposed to know? If I launch from the bottom of the canyon, the P3 says, at 400 ft above launch site, I'm maxed out, but if I move horizontally, I may actually only be 50 ft AGL.

2. Hell, I forgot my other points........

I'll be back.



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Interesting to watch the comments fly back in forth on my post. The vast majority of the folks that commented figured out the correct answer; that being AGL is directly tied to the drone and not the pilot or launch origination point. Someone provided some excellent illustrations... I hope this post has cleared up any confusion there happened to be regarding the 400 foot curling.


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Excellent illustrations. Perfect for this discussion.


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Just got back from a trip to Jamacia Took of from the beach flew up the side of the mountain to 1490 to take a picture
But at no time was I over 400 ft as i hugged the trees within reason all the way up.
We all know it is 400 ft above AGL aka below your bird
Which after climbing over your 400' from start point you never knew the actual AGL of your drone throughout the flight.

Interesting to watch the comments fly back in forth on my post. The vast majority of the folks that commented figured out the correct answer; that being AGL is directly tied to the drone and not the pilot or launch origination point. Someone provided some excellent illustrations... I hope this post has cleared up any confusion there happened to be regarding the 400 foot curling.
But it can't be the drone, as the drone is 'dump' device that only knows high above it's start point. Which it has no topographical data or NOE pathing. The limit is in place to avoid collisions with commercial aircraft, and our drones have a modest range of only a few miles.
 
So basically you have no intention of actually following the guideline. You are saying just being able to say I followed even if you are not?
Having not yet been faced with this scenario as posed by the OP with such big altitude differences, I actually cannot say at this moment what I would do... so, if I don't know then you can't possibly know whether I have any intention of one kind or another... you've also clearly missed the inherent sarcasm undertone in my original response to the OP posting...

So before you get into a rant, let's get on same page first. If you agree to these 3 points below:

1. the world is not flat.
2. Phantom based all height measurement from the point of take-off
3. FAA guideline stipulate 400 AGL (the ground which is directly below the drone, NOT where it takes off from)
Of course I agree with all these points... and I wasn't on a rant to begin with nor am I now even though you seem intent upon trying to provoke me to do so... and I'm sure that the FAA doesn't care that the drone we may be flying cannot provide the actual AGL measurement of it's flight location and instead is based upon the DJI concept of a flat world and #2 above... in worst case situation, I doubt that this "excuse" would hold up in court for any of us...

So tell me, if you fly off a cliff that is 500 feet high over above the cliff, you are already over 400 AGL.
Yep, by true AGL of course you would be... assuming you flew at a constant relative altitude instead of descending as you flew off of the cliff...

Give #1, #2, and #3 to be true (if you disagree, then no point going further), how do you propose to strictly follow FAA guideline (see #3) when #1 and #2 is true and you are not flying in a flat area?
as noted earlier, I agree with these items... and you seem stuck on the word "strictly" when, as I wrote earlier, my response to the OP was intended to be somewhat sarcastic because I don't believe there is any single right answer to the question and too much of what we're expected to do is based upon guidelines that can be interpreted many different ways depending on the reader...

No this may seem like argumentative for Missouri, at very hilly California coastline, it isn't. Anytime I fly off a hill toward the beach, it already exceeded the 400 AGL even if I take off at only 50 feet AGL.
Indeed... you are seeming unnecessarily argumentative where no argument from me existed... we have hills in Missouri too and I'm from Santa Barbara so well acquainted with the California coastline topology... and in all these situations we are faced with the challenge to follow guidelines and be safe but with aircraft that don't give us the needed details to really be able to do so reliably....

As for me, I'll fly in every situation while trying to juggle a variety of inputs such as topology, weather, wind, area, bystanders, obstacles, FAA guidelines, etc. plus the 10 year old boy living inside me that is excited and thrilled by these great machines and wants to push the envelope a little and sneak an extra thrill into the equation occasionally if I can do so reasonably safely but with the understanding that I am ultimately responsible for only me and my action... nobody elses...
 

The use of the word "strictly" convey a sense that it is a hard and fast rule to follow rather than a guideline as it really is.

What I read over and over again on the forum are people who are stuck on the 400 ft ceiling as if that's some kind of hard line rule when in fact it is a guideline and really can not be executed based on the technology we have on the toy (i.e. all DJI Phantom). I think it is very hypocritical to harp on it (ie. 400.1 ft and you are a sinner folks) when in fact they themselves have no way of following that rules 100% of the time.

Additionally, no one talks about the next guideline from FAA about flying BELOW nearby obstacles. So do those purists follow ALL the recommendations or pick and choose what they want to follow (and actually being able to)? This one to me actually makes more sense and can be executed and follow compare to the 400 feet AGL ceiling as you are sure to be not the highest point nearby and the manned aircraft have other higher structure/objects to worry about and avoid thus by extension naturally precluded our drone from colliding.

That's just my opinion.


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Nice.

You know you can actually go to under the bridge at the base (auburn side) and hang out under the bridge. I've flown there a few times. I live in Rocklin.
 
The biggest problem I see is that it's within the California State Park system, so technically you cannot fly there. If a ranger comes along it will be up to him if he allows you to fly. I almost got booted once, but after a polite discussion he allowed me to fly... I have flown there several times... just be safe and out of the way... and maybe on a weekday with little activity.
 
The 400 foot limit (well, 393 or so foot limit per the app) may be raised to 500 feet with the new FAA guidelines coming later this year.

The most important thing IMO is what others have said, to practice "see and avoid" - if you see an airplane or helicopter or wing parachutist or kite with a really long string, steer clear. The onboard telemetry/logging combined with Google Earth should convince anyone who asks whether you were within the guidelines or not.
 
Exactly why 400 is just a number guideline. There are plenty of example where 400 is dangerous.

Many coastal area in California is very hilly. You can easily take off at the side of hill or top of cliff at 600 feet ASL. Proceed to fly up to 300 AGL or 900 ASL. Then head toward the beach/coast line.

You will find helicopters, banner towing prop planes BELOW you.

Your P3 instrument aren't going to tell you that you are over 400 AGL. It will show that you are behaving like you should at 300 AGL (false reading obviously).
That is what I use an iOS app called "Altitude" for. It lets you compare ASL altitudes from a map of your current location on the fly.
 
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That is what I use an iOS app called "Altitude" for. It lets you compare ASL altitudes from a map of your current location on the fly.

DO you have the exact name? I see "My Altitude", "Altitude Meter Free", and "Altitude US 2015", but nothing that just says "Altitude". This would be a good tool to have.
 
DO you have the exact name? I see "My Altitude", "Altitude Meter Free", and "Altitude US 2015", but nothing that just says "Altitude". This would be a good tool to have.
Here ya go:
 

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The biggest problem I see is that it's within the California State Park system, so technically you cannot fly there. If a ranger comes along it will be up to him if he allows you to fly.

Hi Cactus, The ASRA is not State Land or a State Park, though the Rangers won't tell you that because they want you to think that they have control over that land - that legally they have very little control over.. It's mostly private land with some BLM managed land and it was the failed Auburn dam project that caused this mess. Unfortunately we must know the laws and protect our own rights against these rogue rangers that have some hands in the ASRA. Not all of the rangers are bad by any means. I used to be able to drive and have driven on all of those dirt roads in the area at one time, the ASRA rangers have an agenda and have gated or blocked access to every road to the American River that they can whether actually legal or not.

The State manages the federal non designated recreation area under a management contract. In that contract minerals and mining are excluded from State management and we can all legally enjoy the BLM land and even fly there. But the private land is still private.

Once the real nature of the ASRA is understood, people could have a very good shot at getting new claims made on the areas that are not private land. The withdrawals in the ASRA are contrary to law and a sham that profits several very powerful groups. The first step is to get people to understand that the ASRA is not State land and not a State park. You have a right to be on that public land.
 
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DO you have the exact name? I see "My Altitude", "Altitude Meter Free", and "Altitude US 2015", but nothing that just says "Altitude". This would be a good tool to have.

I do a lot of flying in a mountain region and use an IOS app called "Geo Elevation". It's really a Google Earth overlay on which you can place any number of flying points and it provides a graphical format of the various hights at each point and terrain between those points.

I use it on my iPad, but don't know what it looks like on an iPhone size screen. Here's a display of the bridge area which the OP was talking about.

elevation1.jpg
 
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