400' FAA altitude limit a law or a suggestion?

I am sorry but this is stupid. You are flying a 500 - 1,500 dollar phantom. They are flying a plane potentially worth hundreds of thousands of dollars. Pilots in a specific class of airspace are allowed to fly as low as they want as long as they pose no threat to persons or property. YOU as a drone operator need to be aware of your craft and surrounding crafts. Flying is all about right of way and as a craft that has no living being inside are on the bottom of the totem pole for right of way.

As for no reason to be below 1000 feet what about crop dusters or low flight gas line inspections.

Also even a helicopter pilot isn't going to be able to spot a drone as small as a phantom very easily. I think some of the people on this forum need to take some actual flight classes and get some respect for the other members of the flight community and not assume anything.

It's stupid that if you initiate emergency procedures that low you're dead anyway. And I respectfully said, IMO regardless of how strongly you feel. Exactly my point though. They're flying hundreds of thousands of dollars. Stay up away from where people can risk your life and money. Why trust someone isn't going to break rules, I don't. This is just an alternative opinion to your own. Doesn't make anything stupid, only ignorant people make things stupid. I have been a skydiver for 6 years and a pilot for 11 and there's no need to fly that low WITHOUT an SFOC. Small aircraft should be at or above 3000' unless necessary. In an emergency, that leaves 5 seconds to pull your chute, 800-1000 for it to open and 1000 to safely fly your landing pattern which as a pilot would take a minute to figure out if was left or right handed providing you didn't already know which isn't likely considering the nature of an emergency.
 
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Flying low is necessary to complete a task of some sort. It is just as easy to notify the tower that an aircraft will be in a danger zone for a specific period of time so drone flights can be limited or electronically banned... my suggestion is simply to create a guarantee that controls air traffic. Just like every other area where manned aircraft frequent. Flying unmanned aircraft is not an option at all in those areas. Either that or set a 400ft hard limit on drones and be done with it.

To clarify. I am not advocating for higher drone flights. I am advocating for safety in the air. Don't care how it happens.
 
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Ask this guy if it a general rule or an enforceable law.

People make bad decisions all the time. Sometimes through ignorance. Sometimes through bad judgement. Recognize their mistakes and don't repeat them.

It is just as easy to notify the tower that an aircraft will be in a danger zone for a specific period of time so drone flights can be limited or electronically banned...

What tower would that be? A tower is associated with an airport. If the airport actually has a tower. Many don't. Who do they notify when they're not near an airport?

That issue notwithstanding, a tower is not staffed to handle the additional workload this would require. And there is no facility or capability to broadcast this information to influence or control drones in the area.

Advanced sense and avoid systems will come out in the future. Many years from now. Until then, we need to stay below 400ft AGL and get out of the way of any manned aircraft at or below 400ft AGL.
 
A tower, the tower. It doesn't matter as long as there is something to call to log the flight. Yeah the staff problem is obvious there I agree but maybe that is what is needed. I simply do not trust people in general to follow any rule when the device can be easily obtained/flown by an unqualified individual. They don't regulate them like guns and even if they did we all know how well that works.

The reason I suggest such a thing is because at least it places the safety concerns back in the hands of the concerned parties with the most to lose.
 
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The technology to map all these drones is out there right now. When I fly, the moment I lift off in Maryland, my Dad in Seattle can track me real time. He knows where I am. He knows what direction I'm going. He knows how high I am (from launch and from sea level). And he knows it all real time.

The boys over at Davis Airport can track me too. I give 'em a call. They have the option of bringing me up on a screen. They can know exactly where I am. There's no guess work.

Organizing this is not that far-fetched. Somebody just needs to put it all together.
 
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Couldn't agree more. If it doesn't come together in that way I fear that mislaid rules will be born out of necessity and make it a hairy area to navigate. I thought DJI had a new system coming out soon for just that reason... maybe I'm mistaken.

The longer this state remains the higher chance of a major catastrophe happening. If that happens watch how fast hard rules show up.
 
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I fly a p3p, own an airplane and fly helicopters for work. 400 agl is low in the airplane, but it's just another day at the office in the helicopter. Drones aren't a threat to helicopters? How do figure that? I promise at 400ft and 120 knots a drone is impossible to see and avoid. Just don't do anything stupid and be aware of your surroundings, one major accident is all it will take for all the fun to be over.

I don't fly manned aircraft (other than in the back), but this has always been my contention. Even if you have eagle eyes, seeing a 2' RC AC would be virtually impossible to see. Yet, how many accounts do we see in the media where commercial 'pilots' reported seeing (and in some cases taking evasive action to avoid) drones? I've always thought that was pure BS and propaganda. Glad to see someone who's been sitting in the pilot's seat confirm this.
 
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I fly a p3p, own an airplane and fly helicopters for work. 400 agl is low in the airplane, but it's just another day at the office in the helicopter. ...
I would propose a voluntary speed limit of 30 knots when helicopters are flying 400' AGL or below...

The helicopter pilot would have a better chance to see us, but even better, we'd at least have a ghost of a chance to get out of the way...
 
The intent of issuing "recommendations" is that we should be able to follow those "recommendations", so that they do not have to "make them LAW". They're giving us a break for being simply hobbyists.......... but if the "recommendations" continue to be ignored, I can guarantee you they WILL make them LAW. And we will most likely lose a lot as far as altitude and distance allowed. I'm not here to tell anyone how to fly. I'm just pointing out that on this side, we have the "recommendations", and on the other side, we have the harsher new laws that will be created when no one follows the recommendations. So, choose wisely, grasshopper.
 
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That's how the old rule was worded. The new rule is a bit different:

"Maximum altitude of 400 feet above ground level (AGL) or, if higher than 400 feet AGL, remain within 400 feet of a structure."

So, if there is a radio tower on top of the mountain peak (for example), your Phantom could be well above 400 AGL as long as it's within 400 feet of the radio tower.

x
 
Recommendation or Law. Neither. When the "Regulations" become effective that is what they will be. Only Congress can pass laws. The FAA is a Federal Regulatory Agency that puplishes regulations. Many may think so what. If you run afoul of these and end up in a court of law the difference is massively important.
 
Do fight it and best not to argue it. The 400 ft. Is an area that is safe to fly in unless you are close to any landing zone like a hello pad at a hospital. All aircraft have recommended regulations is altitudes to help protect them from crashes. Even major airlines flying north th south have certain altitudes and those east to west have others. With all the thousands of aircraft to n the air at one time with the thousands of people onboard those recommended regulations protect them for comming together. We as hobiest had better understand just because we are at the controls we can't just fly as high as these things can go. They will enter into someone else's air space making it unsafe for those that are complying. Be satisfied and fly within that altitude. Be safe and help protect someone's mother, father, sister or brother. Do be stupid and thing we'll just one will be ok. It might just be that once you smash a windshield or blow out an turbine. How could you live with that.... Especially behind bars...
Here is the info for small craft such as PPC's, para motors, etc
500 ft rule
An aircraft must maintain an altitude of 500 feet above the surface, except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In those cases, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure.
1000 ft rule
An aircraft must maintain an altitude of 1,000 feet above the highest obstacle within a horizontal radius of 2,000 feet of the aircraft over any congested area of a city, town, or settlement, or over any open air assembly of persons.
So that give us and them a 100 ft safety separation.
Stay out of others airspace and be safe.
 
I was about to fly on a mountain flat and got buzzed by a biplane twice. He was close enough to see him smiling ! I put the p3p away. It's not fair that planes can get away with it. It would of been hard to avoid him if I were in the air. Yesterday I had a water drop helicopter swing over us at 350ft.
 
I was about to fly on a mountain flat and got buzzed by a biplane twice. He was close enough to see him smiling ! I put the p3p away. It's not fair that planes can get away with it. It would of been hard to avoid him if I were in the air. Yesterday I had a water drop helicopter swing over us at 350ft.


Fair? This isn't about fair or anything like that. We have flying toys and by law are required to See & Avoid with no exceptions.

If you believe he was busting regulations simply take down the tail # of the aircraft and report it to the FAA. They will investigate and take actions accordingly. They take safety VERY seriously.

By the way that's a SWEET truck in your avatar.
 
Fair? This isn't about fair or anything like that. We have flying toys and by law are required to See & Avoid with no exceptions.

If you believe he was busting regulations simply take down the tail # of the aircraft and report it to the FAA. They will investigate and take actions accordingly. They take safety VERY seriously.

By the way that's a SWEET truck in your avatar.
I totally understand about toys compared to real aircraft but had I been flying it could be dangerous for all parties involved. If they stay above 500 and I stay below 400 we'd all be happy. I'll admit it was cool as hell seeing a plane fly that close but I couldn't blow the whistle on him to FAA.

Omerta

Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward.
Whoever cannot take care of themselves without that law is both.

Thanks. I love my Chevy.
 
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The FAA recommends drone owners not exceed 400 feet, is this a law or just a suggestion from the FAA? I often go over 400'
Lot's of confusion on this altitude "rule". There is no altitude limit for US hobbyist flights. No FAA or other US legal altitude limit for non-commercial drones under 55 pounds. As per Public Law 112-95 Section 336, the FAA may not make any such rules applying to "model aircraft", and all common recreational drones fall within the definition of "model aircraft" under that law. For commercial drone flights the FAA altitude limit is 400 feet above the ground or above any structure within 400 feet of the drone.
 
Here's how it works:

Amateur use is protected from further regulations under section 336 of the 2012 FMRA if, and only if, you follow the guidelines identified.

The 400ft AGL ceiling is technically a recommendation but if you don't follow it, you could be subjected to part 107 or even part 91 regulations should the FAA deem your activity to be dangerous.

So let's say you fly up to 1,000ft AGL and a Cessna comes by. Despite your efforts to descend as fast as possible, you have a "close call" with it. Local officials find you and pass your details to the FAA. The FAA can and most likely will fine you for failing to stay clear of a manned aircraft.

It doesn't matter if you did everything you could to avoid it, it will still be your fault.


Well, that FAA investigator in your hypothetical for a hobbyist flight pilot failing to avoid a manned aircraft (a) has a lot of time on his hands or got a call from the President and (b) has an incredible investigative skill and tenacity to track down the drone pilot who was not dumb enough to post the video of the close call to Youtube. :) But seriously, if you are up there at 1640 feet or lower and some manned aircraft pilot comes close to your much slower drone, he is probably more at fault than you are for flying so low and not avoiding the drone. If visibility is too low to see the drone, the manned pilot was definitely at fault for being that low unless of course it is a controlled airspace. As a lawyer, pilot, and drone hobbyist I can tell you that most drone pilots are way too freaked out about the "rules". If you are not flying near people or in a controlled airspace (use Airmap if you aren't sure) then you should relax and enjoy your drone! There are so many hyped up rule junkies on these sites - jeeze! [end rant]
 
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The intent of issuing "recommendations" is that we should be able to follow those "recommendations", so that they do not have to "make them LAW". They're giving us a break for being simply hobbyists.......... but if the "recommendations" continue to be ignored, I can guarantee you they WILL make them LAW. And we will most likely lose a lot as far as altitude and distance allowed. I'm not here to tell anyone how to fly. I'm just pointing out that on this side, we have the "recommendations", and on the other side, we have the harsher new laws that will be created when no one follows the recommendations. So, choose wisely, grasshopper.

Not really, sorry. Recommendations are based on commercial and public (government) established practices and input from (thousands of) commenters in the rulemaking process, all with some pet special interest. Recommendations are always issued for public information and/or public safety purposes. They are NEVER published as a warning that failure to adhere will result in actual new regulation or legislation. Read some published rules and laws and you will see the pattern. There is no "threat" out there to regulate drones any more than they are already regulated for commercial purpose, no matter how many yahoos try to do dumb stuff that makes other people upset. It is simply not going to happen for hobbyist drones - it can't by law. This sort of stuff is all just (internet) myth and scare tactics. That said, a lot of people like myths and scare tactics, so if the actual law is not what you're looking for then nevermind.
 
Well, that FAA investigator in your hypothetical for a hobbyist flight pilot failing to avoid a manned aircraft (a) has a lot of time on his hands or got a call from the President and (b) has an incredible investigative skill and tenacity to track down the drone pilot who was not dumb enough to post the video of the close call to Youtube. :) But seriously, if you are up there at 1640 feet or lower and some manned aircraft pilot comes close to your much slower drone, he is probably more at fault than you are for flying so low and not avoiding the drone. If visibility is too low to see the drone, the manned pilot was definitely at fault for being that low unless of course it is a controlled airspace. As a lawyer, pilot, and drone hobbyist I can tell you that most drone pilots are way too freaked out about the "rules". If you are not flying near people or in a controlled airspace (use Airmap if you aren't sure) then you should relax and enjoy your drone! There are so many hyped up rule junkies on these sites - jeeze! [end rant]

Seems odd that you revived a year-old thread claiming to be a pilot and a lawyer, but perhaps you could point to some airspace, any airspace, in the US, that is uncontrolled at 1640 ft AGL?
 
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